Prime Jack Johnson vs Jack Dempsey

You have got to be kidding man! Swarmers beat boxers but lose to sluggers!!! Fantastic job, Sir Troll. Why didn't the "swarmer" beat Tunney?

it's a thing called "out of prime", when a boxer can't perform anymore at his maximum capacity.
...why didn't Johnson beat Willard, a guy who Dempsey destroyed in 3 rounds?
Get you're facts right before making you're self look like a dumbass.

Besides that, Tunney was faster and a more fine boxer then Johnson, and a washed out Dempsey still managed to hang out with him, and almost beat him in the 2nd fight.

Yes swarmers generally beat boxers, again get you're facts right.
a 170lbs swarmer Joe Choynski, KO a near his prime Johnson in 2 rounds.

There is no way that the slow-starter, glass chinned Johnson can survive a 1919 Jack Dempsey.
It will be the same as the Willard fight, expect that Johnson couldn't take the same amount of punishment.
 
it's a thing called "out of prime", when a boxer can't perform anymore at his maximum capacity.
...why didn't Johnson beat Willard, a guy who Dempsey destroyed in 3 rounds?
Get you're facts right before making you're self look like a dumbass.

Besides that, Tunney was faster and a more fine boxer then Johnson, and a washed out Dempsey still managed to hang out with him, and almost beat him in the 2nd fight.

Yes swarmers generally beat boxers, again get you're facts right.
a 170lbs swarmer Joe Choynski, KO a near his prime Johnson in 2 rounds.

There is no way that the slow-starter, glass chinned Johnson can survive a 1919 Jack Dempsey.
It will be the same as the Willard fight, expect that Johnson couldn't take the same amount of punishment.

Are you a descendent of Tommy Burns or something? You have really got it out against JJ...
 
Dempsey would get inside on Johnson and it would be over. He's sure not going to try to match the man jab for jab.
 
Dempsey. Though I am extremely biased and grossly misinformed.
 
Why did you pick Dempsey to win?

Superior combination of speed and power, better fluidity, explosiveness, and savagery.

Johnson wouldn't be hard enough to find to stymie Dempsey's attack.
 
Superior combination of speed and power, better fluidity, explosiveness, and savagery.

Johnson wouldn't be hard enough to find to stymie Dempsey's attack.
I think both of you are forgetting how good Johnson's defense was inside. He would tie up guys MUCH stronger than Jack Dempsey, and pepper people as he was holding them. Lets also not forget that he had a VERY GOOD chin as well as being a great defensive fighter. He would hold the strength, weight and height advantage. Dempsey's chin... not nearly as good as Jack's.
 
Are you a descendent of Tommy Burns or something? You have really got it out against JJ...

His legacy is blown way out of proportion by the fact that he was the first black HW champion, in those segregated times when whites didn't have a good HW.
 
I think both of you are forgetting how good Johnson's defense was inside. He would tie up guys MUCH stronger than Jack Dempsey, and pepper people as he was holding them. Lets also not forget that he had a VERY GOOD chin as well as being a great defensive fighter. He would hold the strength, weight and height advantage. Dempsey's chin... not nearly as good as Jack's.

I think only Jeffries and McVea(probably) where stronger then Dempsey, and they both outwrestle Johnson in the clinch, besides that, Dempsey was a dirty fighter in the clinch.

I wonder what makes you think that Johnson's chin is much better then Dempsey.
He got dropped/Ko by guys far smaller then him and not really hard punchers.

Assuming that his defense was really that good.
Would that help him survive a ferocious fast and hard puncher Jack Dempsey, let alone win the fight, when his chin was suspect to say the least?



A good defense won't help you to much against a guy all around better then you.
 
I think only Jeffries and McVea(probably) where stronger then Dempsey, and they both outwrestle Johnson in the clinch, besides that, Dempsey was a dirty fighter in the clinch.

I wonder what makes you think that Johnson's chin is much better then Dempsey.
He got dropped/Ko by guys far smaller then him and not really hard punchers.

Assuming that his defense was really that good.
Would that help him survive a ferocious fast and hard puncher Jack Dempsey, let alone win the fight, when his chin was suspect to say the least?



A good defense won't help you to much against a guy all around better then you.

Are you joking me? Do you really want to compare the people that knockdown Dempsey compared to JJ? All the people that knockdown JJ were harder punchers than Tunney. I'm not saying dempsey had a horrible chin, but it wasn't as strong as Johnson.

Are you also joking about Jeffries getting the better of Johnson inside and outwrestling. That is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what actually occured. In fact, people talked about how Johnson couldn't tie of jeffries and Johnson vowed that he'd be able to. You can even see this is the choppy footage and in the articles written by ring side people. Johnson was smiling while doing just that. Peppering jeffries while outwrestling him all the while smiling while doing so. I'm not sure how you could be so wrong on all accounts.

Johnson was a GREAT defensive fighter and faced guys more powerful than Dempsey and pressure fighters and it didn't matter. He went to war in fight far far longer than dempsey ever dreamed about doing in fights. You act like Dempsey was some crazy freak doing stuff nobody ever did before. He would come in.. get tied up and get peppered in the process and hurt by the bigger and stronger johnson.
 
This could go on forever....Johnson had 7 KO losses.
Dempsey had none( unless you think Flynn KO was legit).
Johnson got dropped more times and by smaller men.
You think Johnson had much better chin, i think Dempsey had....i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.




To me it doesn't really look like he outwrestled Jeffries.
More like old Jeffries outwrestled him for 13 rounds then he got tired.
However Jack did out-punch him in the clinch but that's another story.

All the people that knockdown JJ were harder punchers than Tunney.

lol Tunney caught Dempsey unbalanced; he took a 2 count and got up...nothing serious.
You could had given a better example with Firpo, but then again, that guy is easily more powerful and bigger then the opponents who KO Johnson.

Johnson was a GREAT defensive fighter and faced guys more powerful than Dempsey and pressure fighters and it didn't matter. He went to war in fight far far longer than dempsey ever dreamed about doing in fights. You act like Dempsey was some crazy freak doing stuff nobody ever did before. He would come in.. get tied up and get peppered in the process and hurt by the bigger and stronger johnson.

That's exactly Dempsey..
Fast paced, crouching with bob waving, and tremendous hard puncher.
He was the first modern HW.
There wasn't anyone like him before.




how many jabs did the 6ft.6 black HW champion and sparring partner, Bill Tate missed?
A slick boxer in Tunney had a hard time to land a clean shot on the old Dempsey.


Now compare that with Johnson's "great defense".
Chin up in the air with slow to no movement, and clinch.




With all of his so-called great defense and fighting stance, he was much easier to get hit.
Really, the more i study this guy, the more i think he's insanely overrated.
 
I'm really confused here... You posted footage that supports what I'm saying? You can see in the video Johnson clearly outwrestling Jeffries inside. Which is backed up by the newspaper accounts that said Johnson outwrestled and frustrated Jeffries. Before the fight people said nobody could hold jeffries on the inside clinch... Johnson said he would do just that and DID just that.

So it's your stance that Johnson wasn't a great defensive fighter? Then please explain to me why many people who fought him, watched him fight all said he was a great defensive fighter? They were all lying and wrong? I highly doubt such a thing like that would a be possible. A big lying conspiracy to propogate Johnson being a great defensive fighter lol. Dempsey even said the same exact thing and said he never saw anybody who could parry punches like Johnson. Yet your claim is that they are all wrong and you are the authority?

Then you further post footage that proves this point further. You post a video of Burns barely ever even hitting johnson. Johnson toying and playing with burns all the while never even getting hit really? Yet you post this video? lol
 
One thing that cannot be argued is that Jack Johnson put on amazingly boring fights.
Sleep-inducers. You're supposed to give the paying crowd some excitement too!


Defensive boxers always on the backfoot waiting for the other guy to make the fight can go f*<k themselves...

.
 
One thing that cannot be argued is that Jack Johnson put on amazingly boring fights.
Sleep-inducers. You're supposed to give the paying crowd some excitement too!


Defensive boxers always on the backfoot waiting for the other guy to make the fight can go f*<k themselves...

.

"You'd wouldn't have to take a laxative or something to fall asleep watching him (Jack Johnson) fight." -Mike Tyson
 
Jack Dempsey? Be serious the dude had 3 years of inactivity and gene tunney gave him fits both times they fought why would you think he could beat Jack Johnson who was a great boxer with excellent defense for his time
 
Jack Dempsey? Be serious the dude had 3 years of inactivity and gene tunney gave him fits both times they fought why would you think he could beat Jack Johnson who was a great boxer with excellent defense for his time

I don't understand the logic of this.

Dempsey fought Tunney old and disinterested. He was busy being a movie star and idol. And Tunney was a slick as hell guy. It's not like Tunney lost a lot of fights; he's an all-time great himself.

Dempsey truly was a pioneer; a mix of fluidity and savagery unlike any before him.

No disrespect to Johnson, he is an all-time great, had better longevity than Dempsey, and I don't have any gripes if someone ranked them higher than Dempsey on their all-time great type lists, but at their best The Mauler > Galveston Giant.
 
just watched a few rounds of the Dempsey-Tunney fight, enough to see the suppossed pattern. still, even an old Dempsey managed to keep the pressure on and make Tunney miss, oh, i'd say about 80 percent of his punches. Dempsey, like all great fighters, still knew what to do, still tried, just didn't do any of it quite as well. As for Tunney I think that his style doesn't age quite as well as Jacks, he still throws lots of arm punches and also keeps his chin up too high, he also raises his chin when he jabs. Prime Dempsey probably would have caught him with a lot more overhand rights. However, I didn't see that Dempsey was really good at cutting off the ring though, just an impression, could be wrong.
 
anyway, enough to repeat what I always say about dempsey, he singlehandedly did more to revotlutionize the sport in every way than anyone before or since.
 
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