Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by KORUPT xLOxx, Aug 5, 2010.
who do you guys think wins this battle n why?
I don't know, I always heard rumours that they fought aboard a barge in secret or something. Well, hard to judge either by some of the footage but I think I have to pick Dempsey because he brought all the modern stuff we use today into it and it's worked to the point that people still start with his inventions.
I'm a huge Dempsey fan but I would pick JJ in this one. He was probably the better technical boxer and was bigger. That plus Dempsy was unpredictable. When he was on, he was savage but he had some forgetable fights, like loosing to Willie "Fat" Meehan.
JJ's loss to Willard was suspect. I don't believe it was legit. So I throw out the common opponent thing.
Those days were so much different, that's what makes it hard to gauge. Those guys had to fight after not eating for days, nothing compares to that today. But what I base it on is just the fact that Dempsey moved boxing from the older style of stand up straight with your chin up in the air and punches being thrown without proper leverage to something much better. Jack Johnson has the reputation of being the finest defensive fighter ever and he was a bad ass but i can't see if he has the ability to punch in the way more modern fighters like dempsey did. Just really hard to say, but it is with all great vs. great matchups, and impossible in the end.
The Mauler was unlike those who came before him.
Dempsey by kayo.
Moz....it's funny, but I too remember reading somewhere that Dempsey and Johnson squared off in some type of exhibition/bout before Dempsey hit the big time. It may have been an old Ring Magazine article.....I also remember the article saying Dempsey got the better of it.
I think that's the same article I saw, wish I'd saved all those mags, I miss them every now and then and sometimes would like to reference them. It helps to argue with all the revisionists too.
And also, as I've written before, chin down, back arched etc.., is like DUH! today but just like the old basketball players thought it crazy to jumpshoot, those things made a whole lot of difference and were completely radical in their days.
Jack Dempsey said of Johnson, (McCallum p 17), “He was the greatest catcher of punches that ever lived (glove blocker). And he could fight all night. He was a combination of Jim Corbett and Louis. I’m glad I didn’t have to fight him.”
Jack Dempsey unhesitatingly described Jack Johnson as a boxing genius. Said the Manassa Mauler, “Johnson was a master on the defensive, a natural fighter who came from the lower divisions and, through hard work and constant study, developed himself into a title-holder. I believe Johnson was one of the greatest heavyweight champions we have had.”
The Seminal Master: Why Jack Johnson Would Be King Today
Louis wasn't smiling when he climbed through the ropes at Chicago's Bacon Casino on July 4, 1934, for his professional debut. But seated at ringside at the invitation of the promoters, Johnson was flashing his golden smile. His dapper appearance belied the lean times he had endured as an ex-champion. His fame had not been translated into fortune. Throughout the '20s he had challenged "that draft dodger Dempsey," but his challenges were ignored. He tried to get other fights, but boxing commissions refused to give him a license. Without a license he couldn't even spar in vaudeville revues, then the customary way ex-fighters cashed in on their names. It wasn't until the early '30s that Johnson was allowed to take part in boxing exhibitions. By the early '30s, however, vaudeville was virtually dead.
I found this in an article about the bad blood between Jack Johnson and Joe louis.(which I
didn't know about.) It a very good read when you time.
Bad blood existed between Jack Johnson and Joe Louis - 05.14.90 - SI Vault
ya, lots of bad blood, mere jealousy and all onesided really, have you ever seen Joe Louis outside of the ring angry or venomous? Turns out Johnson's criticisms were correct though.
if your a jack johnson fan you got to watch anderson silva vs damian maia
anderson silva reenacts alot of jack johnsons showboating in the match he even does the jackson hands on the hips taunt
anderson silva p1ssed off mma fans that night the same way jack johnson p1ssed off boxing fans in his era
Jack Johnson has to be one of the most overrated if not the most overrated HW of all time.
Some ppl. rate him even as top 3 greatest HW of all time which is a blasphemy.
He build his legend by fighting journeymen and cruiserweights; his greatest win was against a wash-out Jeffries.
The racist society actually helped him build his legacy.
They constantly feed him with white cruiserweights or HW journeymen when at that time, we simply didn't have a good white HW.
Would jack Johnson be regarded so high if he was white?
Definitely no...he's overrated because he was black and he was champion in a racist era who didin't got a good white HW at the time.
If you analyze him, his chin was average at it's best, he was rather slow, and his defense was good against significant smaller men, who, back then fought at much slower pace due to the more rounds.
He got KO cold by a 170lbs cruiserweight Choynski in 2 rounds,and floored by a 160lbs Ketchel.
Almost everything was overrated about him....even his nickname 'Galveston Giant"
jack Johnson was 6ft.1/2- 6ft.1 at it's best and 200-205lbs, nothing special.
1919 Jack Dempsey would put him to sleep in less then 4 rounds.
Jack Johnson is the second best HW of all time, IMO only behind Joe Louis. Johnson had incredible defense and I just dont think that Dempsey had enough tools to beat him.
Another interesting factoid about Johnson is that on the night of Schmeling/Louis 1, Johnson (sitting ringside) was telling anyone who would listen about how Louis would lose due to the fact that he would drop his left after jabbing. This is of course the storied "something" that Schmeling claimed he saw when asked about what weaknesses he saw in Louis. Johnson called the first fight for Schmeling even though he was a tremendous underdog in the eyes of everyone else...
how can you tell how his speed was?? the films don't give any clue. I remember his going after Ketchel looked fast at any speed and agile too.
you rate Johnson as the 2nd greatest HW and you tell me to shut up?...lol:redface:
Supposedly the Ketchel fight was an exhibition and Ketchal crossed the line when he dropped Johnson taking advantage of him when he was at half speed. Johnson got up and KO'd Ketchel leaving some of of his teeth imbedded in his glove.
^...before you say it was a sucker punch and that Ketchel violated the alleged agreement between them, remember that Johnson knocked Ketchel down in earlier rounds first, long before that right hand.
So if anything...it was Johnson the one who broke the agreement(if it was any).
Johnson was known to make up shit, in order to make himself look better.
He did the same in Willard fight....he claimed he dropped the fight in the 26th round....lol
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