Prime Ali wrecks either Klit brother

[Nal**]

I'm actually flattered by the fact you disagree with me because you consider Ali to be a man of a great character.

I repeat, I'd take, any day, an educated man with good manners, well spoken etc.(Klitschko) to be a greater character then screaming, yelling Ali who disrespected and talk shit about virtually anybody,...

That's your perception of him. But who says we have to agree? Ali is a different man to different people, just like you and I. Especially when you rise to fame, you won't please everybody. But maybe you're right though, maybe you see something in Ali I don't see.

---
I have to add something concerning "an educated man with good manners, well spoken". As I said, I met plenty of assbags. Not everything is as it seems. Those people bring out their dirty side in a different way than someone less educated / less mannered (not talking about Klitschko).

 

[Happy Boy]

Ali's life is certainly looked at through rose-tinted glasses. He had some very unsavoury elements to him. His abusive language towards both Foreman and Frazier among many other things made him hard to like.

On a pure boxing front, I think it would be very interesting to see how he would have done against the bigger era HW's. Bowe, Lewis or either of the Klitschkos are types of fighter he had no experience against. He fought and beat some big guys, but none who had skills like these guys and could use their size the way they do. The Bowe who beat Holyfield the first time would be a nightmare for Ali. Huge, fast, big tank, tonnes of inside work, big heart, it would be a huge ask for Ali to take that onslaught and keep him off him for 12 rounds.

 

[Sano]

Povetkin won olympic gold aswell and look what that got him when fighting someone like Wlad Klitschko.

Hmm.. Let me pick this statement apart a bit.

Comparing Muhammed Ali to Povetkin is the first red flag. Pretty ironic since Povetkin won his gold medal in the Olympics against a guy named Muhamed Aly.

Do you know how he won that medal? By walkover. Meaning his opponent didn't show up for the fight. So he basicly won that medal by default. And it was in the SHW division, and we all know how strong that is.

Povetkin is a decent fighter, but he's not a great one. Wlad is a great at what he does, there is no denying that, but the fight was a complete and utterly turd. I saw no great things from Wlad, other than the jab, distance and clinch. Oh and his trips was pretty good. Povetkin also offered nothing, but he has heart.

Now I'm not disregarding these two fighters. They have skills and are strong competitors, but it was almost unwatchable.

 

[Jodocus_Quak]

Hmm.. Let me pick this statement apart a bit.

Comparing Muhammed Ali to Povetkin is the first red flag. Pretty ironic since Povetkin won his gold medal in the Olympics against a guy named Muhamed Aly.

Do you know how he won that medal? By walkover. Meaning his opponent didn't show up for the fight. So he basicly won that medal by default. And it was in the SHW division, and we all know how strong that is.

Povetkin is a decent fighter, but he's not a great one. Wlad is a great at what he does, there is no denying that, but the fight was a complete and utterly turd. I saw no great things from Wlad, other than the jab, distance and clinch. Oh and his trips was pretty good. Povetkin also offered nothing, but he has heart.

Now I'm not disregarding these two fighters. They have skills and are strong competitors, but it was almost unwatchable.

Look a bit further to the next olympics and gues who won gold then. You do realize that this is the guy he beat in the semis when he won gold by a walkover in the finals, don't you? Roberto Camarelle rings a bell to you?

Pov finished is amateur career with 125-7 (wikipedia), just saying...

 

[chlorox]

Ali takes a couple of these jabs or left hooks and his game plan flies out of the window. Tyson said it best: "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."

I personally would take "peak" Ali because the level of competition was way better and because of his speed. If Ali grew up in today's time, he would probably be much bigger as well given changes in nutrition (and possibly hormones in our food supply). But I am okay with someone making the case about Wlad being better.

But to say that Ali would wilt after being hit is ridiculous. The reason Ali is revered is that he did so well against other all-time greats even after he had lost his peak physical abilities....just look at the damage that he took from Foreman. When he first met them, Foreman, Liston, etc were scary boxers that psychologically scared other boxers before they got into the ring....think bigger, more scary versions of peak Mike Tyson.

Tyson, ironically, is the one "all-time" great that I would see Vitaly having success with because of the enormous reach advantage (Tyson's reach is the same as Floyd Mayweather Jr).....but I suspect that Wlad's chin would be tested and would not hold up

 

[Gotosleepho]

I think the Klitschko bros. give any past HW great problems. I'm not saying that they're the best ever, but their physical size and skill is impressive.

 

[SlomiGa]

Hmm.. Let me pick this statement apart a bit.

Comparing Muhammed Ali to Povetkin is the first red flag. Pretty ironic since Povetkin won his gold medal in the Olympics against a guy named Muhamed Aly.

Do you know how he won that medal? By walkover. Meaning his opponent didn't show up for the fight. So he basicly won that medal by default. And it was in the SHW division, and we all know how strong that is.

Povetkin is a decent fighter, but he's not a great one. Wlad is a great at what he does, there is no denying that, but the fight was a complete and utterly turd. I saw no great things from Wlad, other than the jab, distance and clinch. Oh and his trips was pretty good. Povetkin also offered nothing, but he has heart.

Now I'm not disregarding these two fighters. They have skills and are strong competitors, but it was almost unwatchable.

You basically just wrote a wall of utterly irrelevant text.

 

[Ganiccus]

Am I the only one who think either Klit would wreck Tyson/Frazier/Holyfield? IMO the size difference is just too huge between the Klitschkos and these great blownup cruiserweights.

 

[Sano]

You basically just wrote a wall of utterly irrelevant text.

It was relevant to the comment I qouted.

In regards to the OP, Wlad might squeeze by Ali at the later stages of his career, if he worked the clinch excessively, but I still doubt it.

I don't think he would win against prime Ali, but hey, he's crafty and knows what he's doing, so he might have a real chance.

Do you think Wlad would stand toe to toe with Ali?

 

[SlomiGa]

It was relevant to the comment I qouted.

In regards to the OP, Wlad might squeeze by Ali at the later stages of his career, if he worked the clinch excessively, but I still doubt it.

I don't think he would win against prime Ali, but hey, he's crafty and knows what he's doing, so he might have a real chance.

Do you think Wlad would stand toe to toe with Ali?

I didn't mean in it in a disrespectful way though.. And btw, I like your avatar. Fedor will always be the GOAT if you ask me. Noone comes close.

I think Wlad has an edge in technique, size and strength and I think his conditioning would prove too much for Ali... However Ali might have an edge in terms of pure speed. To answer your question, yes I do think Wlad would stand toe to toe and I think he'd get away with it.

 

[daemonarch]

That's your perception of him. But who says we have to agree? Ali is a different man to different people, just like you and I. Especially when you rise to fame, you won't please everybody. But maybe you're right though, maybe you see something in Ali I don't see.

---
I have to add something concerning "an educated man with good manners, well spoken". As I said, I met plenty of assbags. Not everything is as it seems. Those people bring out their dirty side in a different way than someone less educated / less mannered (not talking about Klitschko).

Read "Muhammad Ali - The Greatest" and if you do not find everything that I wrote about in it (in Ali's own words), I will log out from here for good.

 

[djacobox372]

Atheletes are better now than they were back in the day. The Klits would kill Ali

That's true for most sports, which have grown and become more lucrative than they were in the past.

Not true for boxing. If Ali was in his 20's today, he'd be playing pro football.

 

[Breakfast Bar]

People combine the best attributes of Ali, turning him into a 220 pound speed burner. He won his gold medal as a LHW and fought under 200 pounds on occasion even as a pro. The iron chinned 220 pound Ali wasn't that fast, especially of foot.

That being said, I think he'd be competitive with either Klitshko. They have tangible size advantages, but neither has won a back and forth fight, much less scored a come from behind victory. Maybe they are capable, but Ali is the proven commodity when it comes to gutting it out in close fights. Unless he got completely stifled--and it is certainly possible he could be stuck on the end of a giant jab--I think his experience in tough fights pulls him through.

 

[Wanderlei4Life]

Chin, speed, skill, ring savvy, and ring iq all go to Ali.

Power and Size to the Klit bros.

Ali wins.

 

[SWATCOP]

With all due respect, I sense that you're pulling this out of your ass.

A lot of people turned their backs on Ali. In fact, Elijah Muhammad turned his back on Ali during his suspension because he didn't want the brotherhood to be associated with a person who was so hated and because Ali wasnt profitable (no fights) anymore.

To make it clear, Ali was most definitely influenced by the NOI during his youth. But he stilll stuck to his principles even during this period. His refusal to enter draft came from something more essential than the ideologies of the NOI. It came from his fear of dying, killing and a deep conviction that the USA were doing something that was unrighteous.

Muhammad Ali wasn't perfect, he was just human like you and me and he has made plenty of mistakes in his lifetime. None of these mistakes have been mentioned in this thread or by his haters (boxing hipsters) in general. This leads me to believe that you are uninformed, biased, but above all: trying to hard to go against the general appraisal of Ali.

With all due respect to you and your opinion, I promise you I'm not making this up. I wish I could give you the exact issue of the KO magazine (I think) that I'm quoting this from. They used to have a feature in which they would take a particular year, and discuss all the happenings in boxing of that year. It's been many years back, but that's where I got the info that he retracted his Viet Cong statement. I believe it was on the Thrilla in Manilla doc where a former NOI member stated that he was the one who gave Ali the "No quarrel with the Viet Cong" statement. His blatant racist statements against people like Frazier, Foreman, and countless others are well documented. I'm well aware that I should have more accurate sourcing, but I don't right now, I apologize. You can choose whether to believe me or not.

Now, I started boxing in the early 80's, and like most other kids, I grew up idolizing Ali. In some ways, I still do. He did a lot of great things, and I would never attempt to take that away from his legacy, and I still think the same of him as a fighter as I always have. But like many "heroes", we still must acknowledge that he is human (like you said), and he put his character flaws on display just as much as he put his boxing skills. He said a lot of things that hurt people, and whether they were fed to him or not, he chose to say them.

I am 39 years old, I certainly have no reason to come on this site, and make up things to make myself sound knowledgable about things I don't know about. You may have forgotten more about boxing, or Ali, or life in general than I will ever know, but I do know what I know. No disrespect intended.

 

[JayElectra]

Ali's life is certainly looked at through rose-tinted glasses. He had some very unsavoury elements to him. His abusive language towards both Foreman and Frazier among many other things made him hard to like.

On a pure boxing front, I think it would be very interesting to see how he would have done against the bigger era HW's. Bowe, Lewis or either of the Klitschkos are types of fighter he had no experience against. He fought and beat some big guys, but none who had skills like these guys and could use their size the way they do. The Bowe who beat Holyfield the first time would be a nightmare for Ali. Huge, fast, big tank, tonnes of inside work, big heart, it would be a huge ask for Ali to take that onslaught and keep him off him for 12 rounds.

I'm a big fan of Bowe, but I think a prime Ali is quite a bad matchup for him. Holyfield had success when he moved and tried to box Bowe. Riddick could struggle with good, elusive boxers. Tubbs actually gave him a lot of trouble. On the other hand, I favor the best version of Bowe over Wladimir, certainly, and likely over Vitali, as well.

 

[ZeekWatson]

Both Klitschkos would give any heavyweight in history serious problems. Neither of them are walkovers for anyone.

Ever seen the Corrie Sanders fight?

 

[Wanderlei4Life]

this is what Wlad vs Ali would look like in the ring.

 

[GhostBlade]

Ever seen the Corrie Sanders fight?

Corrie Sanders was no bum. He even rocked Vitali at times and had he been a little younger, probably had a good chance at TKOing him. Sanders seemed like a guy with a ton of natural ability that had he dedicated himself fully to the best training, like having an Emmanuel Steward type as a trainer, he could have been a top contender.

 

[Wanderlei4Life]

Corrie Sanders was no bum. He even rocked Vitali at times and had he been a little younger, probably had a good chance at TKOing him. Sanders seemed like a guy with a ton of natural ability that had he dedicated himself fully to the best training, like having an Emmanuel Steward type as a trainer, he could have been a top contender.

That's the point, Corre Sanders is good but he isn't no ATG either though.