Pressure testing Aikido

I'm putting off getting to work, stopped by to have a little fun.

Some Japanese grappling Infotainment. What I like to start was each art's demonstration of how technique could be used depending on the situation. Since I don't know BJJ training-wise, I really enjoyed the BJJ gal's technique.
Girl BJJ Brownbelt vs Judo Man Blackbelt
3,083,291 views
•Sep 10, 2016


kyokushinbul
131K subscribers
Subscribe - http://bit.ly/29eMCV0 Gracie Jiu Jitsu BJJ vs Judo Japanese Judoka - kyokushinbul


My ending thought first. Would now love to see a contest between the Judo Blackbelt and the BJJ girl's Instructor (mean looking SOB).

My most notable impression, however, was how smoothly the Guy Judo black-belt threw the BJJ Brown-Belt Gal. Told ya all.

I also thought the BJJ Gal showed very nicely the BJJ scrambling skills, which can also get one into very hot water. Nonetheless, impressive.

Pressure testing is a huge recurring theme here. Taking a look @ the video, however, it's not really the issue in my book. Simply, you must know how the stuff works.

Quite competitive match which the Judo guy obviously won with throws and good defense BUT take into account that the guy is a Japanese actor who doesn't actively train Judo.
https://sasukepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Yagi_Masumi

He probably got his Judo black belt in high school and barely ever trained again like many Japs. Also note that you can get a Judo black belt in 3 years and a BJJ brown in 5... so she is the more experienced grappler despite having a lower belt.

All this puts things in perspective and makes the BJJ feat less impressive.

Bottom line, Judo is obv better for throws, BJJ obv better for subs and both arts are cool.
 
Quite competitive match which the Judo guy obviously won with throws and good defense BUT take into account that the guy is a Japanese actor who doesn't actively train Judo.
https://sasukepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Yagi_Masumi
We're media here... and I specified infotainment. Moreover, I thought this OP was an especially good thread for both grappling & striking... though the OP himself was thinking elsewhere.

I have some added input given 'aikido' but looking beyond to what makes grappling work... kinda what I've been doing.
 
He probably got his Judo black belt in high school and barely ever trained again like many Japs. Also note that you can get a Judo black belt in 3 years and a BJJ brown in 5... so she is the more experienced grappler despite having a lower belt.
That's interesting what you say about the Judo black belt time vs. BJJ. The subject hasn't really been broached with me at our dojo. In essence however, I agree. And I posted this as I started out here. BJJ much more intense technically particularly if one is looking for the groundwork.

Our mat work activity is pretty sparse compared to BJJ's scrambles, I call it. Posted that as well.
 
He probably got his Judo black belt in high school and barely ever trained again like many Japs. Also note that you can get a Judo black belt in 3 years and a BJJ brown in 5... so she is the more experienced grappler despite having a lower belt.

All this puts things in perspective and makes the BJJ feat less impressive.

I really thought she was very impressive. My critical comment isn't on her, really. It's more on the same blanket criticism of 'aikido,' The Gracie's and BJJ proponents,,, UFC commentator, whomever MMA including local outfits,,, all subscribe to BJJ's superiority. Part of that is seen in the statement that a smaller BBJ practitioner can overcome the stronger, larger opponent because of BJJ's superior technique?

So with the girl BBJ vs. the Japanese Judo Actor... that theorem just didn't pan out. It wasn't some easy trip to dominance.

Does that deflate BJJ's effectiveness? No. One just has to realize that what you think about an art isn't the potential of the art. What she thought, or maybe her teacher in the corner thought... wasn't / isn't the whole lowdown on the art.

Honestly, I think these Aikido vs. whatever videos are a joke. There are only confirming that YOU NEED SKILLED GRAPPLING to overcome the big, strong, aggressive masher.

And i enjoyed the BJJ Brown-belt gal's performance to no end. Very educational. Cheers.:kiss:
 
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Bottom line, Judo is obv better for throws, BJJ obv better for subs and both arts are cool.
I would agree based on the direct experience @ my own dojo. The reason, one factor in me not moving faster into Randori though, is just this same expression.

I think BJJ is aiming at something different than pure Judo philosophy. It's still Judo based, however.

Again, what really are these arts? What is 'aikido.' We have the same issue with the Wing chun here. I'll demonstrate my approach in next post using none other than Ronda Rousey.
 
I commented in the Holly Holm fight post / video, that Ronda's problem was that she wasn't doing Judo. And she wasn't. She was doing MMA, which is why she lost.

That's how I look @ it. Not just Judo is good for x and boxing is good for y.<TrumpWrong1>

#RondaRousey #Judo #Olympics
How to do a Basic Osoto Judo Throw | Ronda Rousey's Dojo #8
590,348 views
•Sep 12, 2019


Ronda Rousey

663K subscribers

Olympian Ronda Rousey goes through the basic osoto judo technique step-by-step for aspiring judokas learning their first throw.

Now, Ronda is doing Judo. What we do in class. And just as she says, this is exactly what I did in my first throw learning. This is Judo. What Ronda did against Holly was not Judo.

If one is going to dis on an art, you have to do what the arts says to do. If you can't do O Soto Gari in a fight, you can't do Judo. If you really know what it takes to do O Soto Gari correctly, if youv'e TRAINED CORRECTLY, it will work against Holly Holm.

Simply, your'e Judo must be better than Holly's boxing.<TheDonald>
 
Look, I see what you guys are doing. Appealing to the let's bang crowd. That's most of MMA, so no argument.
Horrible.
"Let me show you how I punch my compliant partner for 5 minutes! PRESSURE TESTING bitch!"
<{hughesimpress}>

Haha yeah. The hard2hurt parody was on point

Now look @ the very last part of Ronda's video. She torque's up the throw, like Oympic sports competitors I've posted, etc. Let's BEAT the other guy.

Here's Ronda in her O Soto Gari video AGAIN, for emphasis.

#RondaRousey #Judo #Olympics
How to do a Basic Osoto Judo Throw | Ronda Rousey's Dojo #8
590,348 views
•Sep 12, 2019

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Ronda Rousey

663K subscribers

Olympian Ronda Rousey goes through the basic osoto judo technique step-by-step for aspiring judokas learning their first throw. Ronda finally gets to the meat and potatoes in Judo Time. Throws are the coolest part about judo and this basic osoto will carry any beginner judoka far. There are tons more throws and other judo techniques exclusively on RondaRousey.com.

THIS IS NOT JUDO. This is MMA borrowing Judo technique. And guess what... it flamed out against Holly because it was MMA instead of JUDO.

Haha yeah. The hard2hurt parody was on point
What Ronda does at the end, the torque'd up O Soto Gari, is the parody. A parody of Judo. A parody of Judo did not work against an MMA / Kickboxer named Holly. A parody of a martial art DOES NOT WORK.
 
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Haha yeah. The hard2hurt parody was on point

To better explain, you'er last bag work video was ON POINT. You're last bag work video, I learned from that. I got value from that because you were demonstrating art.

Hard2Hurt is demonstrating parody. He's getting up there saying, I WANT TO FIGURE OUT TO BEAT THIS GUY UP IN THE STREET... now I'll sample a little of this and try out a little of that, and work in the Muay Thai I like and see what's wrong w karate, but hey karate might do this in this situation. That's parody. I'll bring in some karate guy and see how that goes.

This is not martial arts. The Ronda Osoto Gari video instructional part is martial arts. You have to understand the art fully and do it fully and correctly. Otherwise it's a joke. A parody.

We DO NOT do what Hard2Hurt does in our Dojo. We learn Judo. We do Judo. We DON'T DO OSOTO GARI STUFF AND CALL IT JUDO. The entire art must be in the throw, or it's not judo.
 
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I'm on a roll. Maybe hidden anxiety over my upcoming randori!

Here's the trouble with Aikido? No. This is the trouble with practicing martial arts @ all.

What's the Difference Between Aikido and Sports
291 views
•Sep 27, 2013


Dave Parks
34 subscribers

What's the Difference Between Aikido and Sports? Hey. I've fought for years to make the distinction in people's minds between Aikido and sports. People still think and refer to Aikido as a sport. It isn't. Aikido is defined as "Budo". Aikido emphasizes the balanced and complete development of the student. The first Doshu (the son of the Founder) said that Aikido is, a special type of martial art that emphasizes spiritual development. While there are Aikido organizations that host tournaments, the Founder emphasized the the art has nothing to do with competition and instead leads to cooperation and the pacification or transformation of the attacker. As far as physical activity, students of Aikido can verify that it can be a challenging physical activity. The practices can be rigorous and also carry the risk of injury if the practice is not done with caution. Moreover, it was never the intention of the Founder that Aikido become an Olympic style activity. Given that Aikido does have its physical side, its focus is not the same as for sports. As I mentioned, competition in Aikido was specifically prohibited by the Founder. Instead, we are to focus on spiritual development -- that is, on the development of the whole human being. As Aikidosha (a person who practices Aikido) we don't depend on excessive force in order to win against an opponent. In this, Aikido differs from sports. Personally, I think that sports occupy a very important place in today's world. Nevertheless, Aikido goes beyond the reach of sport. Aikido takes into account the whole human being to an advanced degree. It (Aikido) also does not subscribe to the idea of "winning" in the sense of a sport or when applied to a "real" situation. Aikido always promotes the idea of reintegrating an out-of-control person into harmony by means of exercising the Aikidosha's own self-control. We'll talk about "What would you do if someone wants to (injure, kill, rob, etc.) you at another time. Sports can't do the same. Aikido creates a link between physical activity and the values and techniques of the samurai. Let me know what you think. Ciao for now.

Dave (the author / speaker) wants to know what I think. He shouldn't have said that.

This guy may be right. He may be some guru of aikido. He may be able to demonstrate aikido will flip / flop Cody Garbrandt and all of Team Alpha Male over all town.

The trouble is I can't get that from what he's presenting. It's just talk, a personal talk about all the same kind of stuff we hear from karate, TKD... even BJJ to some extent. "Harmony, spiritualism, joining, self development, not a competitive endeavor,,,," "The founder prohibited competition.... specifically." And so on.

So what? I mean what the hell is aikido? How about Merriam Webster?

Definition of aikido
: a Japanese art of self-defense employing locks and holds and utilizing the principle of nonresistance to cause an opponent's own momentum to work against him

Ok, this is a little better. Hard2Hurt's got this far. But it doesn't really tell us what specfically makes aikido work. Except we do see a similar concept of judo with the non-resistance and using opponent's own momentum to work against [them].

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let's look at that Ronda judo throw again, O Soto Gari. And throw in MMA / Holly Holm a bit. 'Cause I know O Soto Gari, I can talk about it. What makes that relevant is that I can do it. I understand how it works, and how it can work against you.

Judo - Osoto Gari - 大外刈
214,985 views
•Dec 4, 2012


Flash Mavi
115K subscribers

Now, say Holly Holm has stepped in front of me to punch me, I have to step in to do the throw. The demonstration here takes it from there.

Now what in the Aikido video explains how to effect an O Soto Gari like technique... we are not physically shoving back like the Aikido video says, sorta off. Now what about the Judo video of O Soto Gari explains what all this fancy talkly talk means.

Honestly, I think the O Soto Gari demo video is a fairly good representation of Judo... not overwhelmed. But what does that mean. Honestly to start on the negative, I'm concerned about how the instructor starts to the opponent & leans into the technique. I would be cautious about that.

On the positive, the technique appears to do the work. The physical effect is not from some huge torquing or pushing or exaggerated action, with muscles bulging or straining. So certain steps or parts are performed which when done correctly together cause the opponent to flip rather smoothly and easily.

Okay, so how do you do that? What do you do? It's not adequately described by the Aikido video by harmony, yet the O Soto Gari throw here could be characterized a kinda harmonious, harmony-like in character. Like the Merriam dictionary, kinda use the opponent.... momentum?

When I first started posting, I set out Judo works a certain way. And all the components of that way, the philosophy down to the gi grip must be practiced, understood and mastered to a working level.

How do I feel Dave? Lost listening to you. How do I feel in Judo Class? I know exactly what to do and why. I have to throw Holly Holm with proper Judo... then it will work. "Spirit; and The founder said this...'" isn't enough. I have to know specifically & exactly how it works to throw, or submit an opponent. I have to do the kind of actions shown in the O Soto Gari video above. Should I not perform the throw as it should be done... I'll torgue myself right into an MMA head kick.<{jackyeah}>
 
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I'm gonna pour it on,,, like MMA claims it does (hardly).

Amanda nunes vs. Randa Rousey (UFC)
1,293,159 views
•Aug 7, 2018


Alamgir Hossain

647 subscribers

I'll be a lot shorter here than Aikido Dave (& way shorter than Hard2Hurt as well).

Where's the Judo Ronda?<mma3>
 
I got Dave park's aikido video up.

"For years, Dave says, he's been trying to get people to understand Aikido isn't a sport. Aikido they think is a sport. Dave's reply; It isn't."

What have you told me Dave about how Aikido works? [Nothing].<Moves>

Check out this video from Aikido Instructor, Nick Lowery.

5 Aikido Koryu Dai Roku Ryote mochi sumi otoshi

104 views
•Jan 29, 2016


Kazeutabudokai -Nick Lowry
10.5K subscribers

It shows this little skinny woman kneeling and escaping the grasp of a bigger, beefier man facing her. The narrator (nick Lowery) says in a soothing voice,,, "this is the 5th technique [name]."

There is nice asian type music playing, and some descriptive writings in Japanese at the intro. Okay then, I HAVE NO IDEA HOW SHE IS DOING THIS. And Nick tells absolutely nothing I need to know like I do in Judo.

I'm going to post some female karate fighting to make my point, for those who want to criticize Aikido. I can't criticize what this is... looks like boy meets girl in a padded room when it perhaps should be a padded cell.<puh-lease75>
 
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I really enjoyed this karate contest vid of middle eastern origin. Pakistan it is. Why,? it looks like they are really trying.

Girls kumite Highlights
206 views
•Nov 1, 2018


Islamabad Karate Association

92 subscribers

Girls kumite Highlights. Islamabad karate association will Organised Islamabad open friendship Karate Championship on Sunday 28 October 2018 at Hamidi Hall, Pakistan Sports Board, Islamabad

And as usual for a karate tournament (or class sparring vid), sure enough one (more than one) runs smack dab into a punch.

Some interesting skills seems to be evolving (to borrow MMA's buzzword). These young ladies have a ways to go (a long ways), yet they are in it for more than the minute.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now switch to a champion level female. This is admittedly world class competition.

Iryna Zaretska best 2015
19,802 views
•Dec 13, 2015


Nikaclub
1.76K subscribers
Iryna Zaretska. Best moments of 2015.

Quite a shock compared to the top vid.

My point is that there is a method, skills to be learned to get this all to come together. Can't just go to Nick Lowery's Aikido padded room dojo and listen to soothing Nick walk you through technique 5. Having a nice conversation with your uke. Come to think of it, MMA does the same thing to Rock Music on high!

Here's where Aikido Dave has his day. Can't by definition be a raw demonstration of excessive physical force from regular sized young women. Something (spiritual?) must be at play. In the mix.

The Iryna Zaretska kumite tournament highlight PROVES, that the far physically weaker female of the species can knock down, punch out & kick back opponents, throw them to the ground right of out karate stances & striking technique, with (get ready)...

Harmonious use of the entire individual person (including some spectacular (Zaretska) karate stance work). A snippet of Aikido Dave, for ya.

The bottom line again, is to knock this BJJ (Muay Thai?) Masher's broken body parts...

into the next county before he can say... "Bj"... or "Mu..." or "re..." "tes...."

Judo will work wonders, once you get it there.<LucyBless>
 
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I really enjoyed this karate contest vid of middle eastern origin. Pakistan it is. Why,? it looks like they are really trying.

Girls kumite Highlights
206 views
•Nov 1, 2018


Islamabad Karate Association

92 subscribers

Girls kumite Highlights. Islamabad karate association will Organised Islamabad open friendship Karate Championship on Sunday 28 October 2018 at Hamidi Hall, Pakistan Sports Board, Islamabad

And as usual for a karate tournament (or class sparring vid), sure enough one (more than one) runs smack dab into a punch.

Some interesting skills seems to be evolving (to borrow MMA's buzzword). These young ladies have a ways to go (a long ways), yet they are in it for more than the minute.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now switch to a champion level female. This is admittedly world class competition.

Iryna Zaretska best 2015
19,802 views
•Dec 13, 2015


Nikaclub
1.76K subscribers
Iryna Zaretska. Best moments of 2015.

Quite a shock compared to the top vid.

My point is that there is a method, skills to be learned to get this all to come together. Can't just go to Nick Lowery's Aikido padded room dojo and listen to soothing Nick walk you through technique 5. Having a nice conversation with your uke. Come to think of it, MMA does the same thing to Rock Music on high!

Here's where Aikido Dave has his day. Can't by definition be a raw demonstration of excessive physical force from regular sized young women. Something (spiritual?) must be at play. In the mix.

The Iryna Zaretska kumite tournament highlight PROVES, that the far physically weaker female of the species can knock down, punch out & kick back opponents, throw them to the ground right of out karate stances & striking technique, with (get ready)...

Harmonious use of the entire individual person (including some spectacular (Zaretska) karate stance work). A snippet of Aikido Dave, for ya.

The bottom line again, is to knock this BJJ (Muay Thai?) Masher's broken body parts...

into the next county before he can say... "Bj"... or "Mu..." or "re..." "tes...."

Judo will work wonders, once you get it there.<LucyBless>



Some next-level threadjacking at work here...
 
Some next-level threadjacking at work here...
What was that guy?
Karate Stylist or something back six months ago?

Same style of rambling text, caps and clips...

Plus

who the fuck has time to post all that written diarrhea?

Jesus H!

Go talk to this guy ignorant muppets!

https://www.kokushibudo.com/judo-nyc-instructors/

BB in Judo(9th Dan), Karate, JJJ and Aikido.

There must be something all these YT muppets aren't learning, maybe a good lineage, that makes there technique so shitty.
 
Some next-level threadjacking at work here...
<FookIsThatGuy>
Expected whining. Karate is a 2nd class citizen here, with aikido in the caboose.

What unbaised comments would have said is that karate is hard, it's tough, it's foggy, on how to get from POINT A., what the Pakistani girls were doing, which did catch my eye; and POINT Z., what the WKF Gal Champion was executing. Objective members could see that in the recent ITF thread.

I'm not a Team Alpha Male guy and I'm sure Cody & TJ wouldn't want me on their team. My judo dojo is my home for now and I'm quite satisfied with the instruction.

Randori is coming up. Will I win or lose? I'll think I'll have a least one loss. Maybe more. Depends on whom I get paired up with.
 
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who the fuck has time to post all that written diarrhea?
More media editing. Yeah, I did post thinking-progress.

What MMA isn't doing. Like this video.

p.s. Couldn't find the post. Flo Grappling had a bird?
Why Judo is #1 Sport for Travis Stevens
7,365 views
•Mar 19, 2018


FloGrappling

159K subscribers

Judo Olympian and jiu-jitsu black belt Travis Stevens could easily have been a wrestler, baseball player or football player. But for him, only one sport was worth playing. Find out why.

"Why Judo, I mean you've played so many different sports, you're a natural athlete who has the talent to succeed... the primal drive, blah, blah..." 3 MMA looking guys sitting around a table in tats and T-shirts.

Judo does parallel a lot of what Aikido Dave is saying; and it's not THIS.

Some people are trying to do martial arts. Like Travis, we all want to win. This is media and selling tickets, advertising space at the Olympics.
 
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All got so triggered over the karate post. I thought some would get the concept vs. the aikido criticism. Then a comment pops up @ the Karate BB's in MMA thread, how contrite.

In my eyes, it's problematic to go from A. to Z. in karate skill. Yet we have definite examples of young adult competitors doing it.

For Aikido, looking again at easily accessible material, it's a complete fog on how to get from A. to Z. Throw in the reported by experts (so representing themselves on YT) of super-advanced spirit, whatcetra, and to me doing Aikido is like going from A. to Double Z., or Triple Z.,,, according to both it's critics & advocates.

We have an Aikido dojo or 2? in my area. Am I going there? Never. And that's in bold.
 
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I was purusing Shotokan-like karate vids because it was the no. 1 on my striking list karate-like styles wise. So I posted ones that stood out to highlight the challenge. And the potential payoff.<Dana05>

This is the germ of the issue w Aikido. I never see how to get there. OTOH, I pass it by instead of trying to put an MMA raincoat on it and come up with a 'fixed' art. Now aikido is a joke. How did I come to that?

And interesting phenomena I encountered when looking a comparing grappling styles, were YT videos rating & comparing Judo against BJJ. The common message was BJJ practitioners struggled to do the Judo, while the reverse was not as true. There are several implications of this experience I won't comment on now.

The fallout of this result of BJJ struggling with Judo; then how can MMA minded, the BJJ protagonists evaluate other worldly Aikido? They can't even get a firm grip on Judo, pun just came to mind so appropriate.<{CMPALM}><BC1>
 
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