Elections President Trump could still lose the 2020 popular votes by over 5 million and would still win

AngryPorto said:
I get that you're probably shit-posting at this point, but I'm curious which behavior of mine you think is childish, because the only childish behavior I've seen between the two of us so far is you calling me childish.

And just to re-iterate, you're totally okay with literally millions of votes going into the trashcan, correct? I'm trying not to strawman you but this is the sense I'm getting.
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You didn’t get what you want and are mad. That’s the entire point of your last several posts. So you want to change the rules of the game to get what you want and screw over all the people that rule protects. Having extra seats in the house to get legislation passed doesn’t cut it for you because you don’t understand how government works.
 
cincymma79 said:
You didn’t get what you want and are mad. That’s the entire point of your last several posts. So you want to change the rules of the game to get what you want and screw over all the people that rule protects. Having extra seats in the house to get legislation passed doesn’t cut it for you because you don’t understand how government works.
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I know it's hard to read emotion through text but I am hardly 'mad'. You're right though that I am upset when literally millions of votes go uncounted and people like you act like there's no problem with that. And yes, I want to change our system to make it more democratic. You're happy with the status quo and thus you defend it -- that'd be fine with me if you just admitted that instead of saying I'm being 'childish' -- come on, really?

You're right that I'm not civic scholar, I don't understand how every gear turns in our government. This is why I'm posting on Sherdog and not actively trying to change anything other than spreading my ideas. It doesn't take a civic scholar, however, to see that in a country that claims care about democracy and the will of the people, a country that boldly took a stand 250 years ago to say 'no fuck tyranny, fuck monarchy, we're going to govern ourselves', to see that same country today throw away the will of so many of its very people, yeah you bet your ass I'm going to complain about it. Sorry no good change ever came about from your philosophy of 'this oppressive system is working as intended, you're just mad you didn't get what you want'.

Also, this SHOULD be a bi-partisan issue:

Hungry Joe said:
She would not have won but my vote would have been counted.
When Ross Perot ran he received 20 % of the popular vote but got 0 electoral college votes.
Trump beat Hillary in many more counties in IL but she received all of the votes in the college just like everyone knew she would. How many people stayed home rather than waste their time voting on something that was already determined? I’m not saying the elections aren’t about districts and swing states. I’m saying it shouldn’t be that way.
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Based on his posts I don't think I align with @Hungry Joe politically but that doesn't mean I think his vote should go in the trash. We're no longer uneducated peasants, we don't need the Electoral College, one person, one vote, let the politician who gets the most votes govern.
 
AngryPorto said:
I know it's hard to read emotion through text but I am hardly 'mad'. You're right though that I am upset when literally millions of votes go uncounted and people like you act like there's no problem with that. And yes, I want to change our system to make it more democratic. You're happy with the status quo and thus you defend it -- that'd be fine with me if you just admitted that instead of saying I'm being 'childish' -- come on, really?

You're right that I'm not civic scholar, I don't understand how every gear turns in our government. This is why I'm posting on Sherdog and not actively trying to change anything other than spreading my ideas. It doesn't take a civic scholar, however, to see that in a country that claims care about democracy and the will of the people, a country that boldly took a stand 250 years ago to say 'no fuck tyranny, fuck monarchy, we're going to govern ourselves', to see that same country today throw away the will of so many of its very people, yeah you bet your ass I'm going to complain about it. Sorry no good change ever came about from your philosophy of 'this oppressive system is working as intended, you're just mad you didn't get what you want'.

Also, this SHOULD be a bi-partisan issue:



Based on his posts I don't think I align with @Hungry Joe politically but that doesn't mean I think his vote should go in the trash. We're no longer uneducated peasants, we don't need the Electoral College, one person, one vote, let the politician who gets the most votes govern.
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It doesn’t go in the trash
Do they not teach civics any More
 
cincymma79 said:
Recite the pledge of allegiance for me super quick
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*Sigh* I know, I know, 'we're a republic, not a democracy.' We're actually a representative democracy sort of jammed into a constitutional republic, but it seems to me nuance like that is lost on you.

It's obvious to me you just don't care about certain peoples votes in certain places not counting. I don't know why you can't say this, you can be intellectually honest and still disagree with me. All the same you've exposed yourself as a bad-faith debater, so I think I'm done with you. A bit of advice before I go, although it's unsolicited for sure, so you're likely to just throw it in the trash along with the millions of votes in this country you don't care about. Here it is anyway:

I'm not sure if this is how you argue or debate in the real world, but if so, you should change up your style. No one likes conversing with emotionally detached people who just appeal to authority and attempt to derail conversations by saying 'you're just mad' or 'you're acting like a child' without actually addressing your opponent's argument. It's really intellectually shallow, you'll learn more and gain more empathy if you actually take the time to digest your opponent's points and try to address them substantively. Good luck to you.
 
AngryPorto said:
*Sigh* I know, I know, 'we're a republic, not a democracy.' We're actually a representative democracy sort of jammed into a constitutional republic, but it seems to me nuance like that is lost on you.

It's obvious to me you just don't care about certain peoples votes in certain places not counting. I don't know why you can't say this, you can be intellectually honest and still disagree with me. All the same you've exposed yourself as a bad-faith debater, so I think I'm done with you. A bit of advice before I go, although it's unsolicited for sure, so you're likely to just throw it in the trash along with the millions of votes in this country you don't care about. Here it is anyway:

I'm not sure if this is how you argue or debate in the real world, but if so, you should change up your style. No one likes conversing with emotionally detached people who just appeal to authority and attempt to derail conversations by saying 'you're just mad' or 'you're acting like a child' without actually addressing your opponent's argument. It's really intellectually shallow, you'll learn more and gain more empathy if you actually take the time to digest your opponent's points and try to address them substantively. Good luck to you.
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I have addressed them
You still don’t like the answer and are bitching becuase you didn’t get what you want
 
cincymma79 said:
I have addressed them
You still don’t like the answer and are bitching becuase you didn’t get what you want
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You haven't addressed anything, when I complain about the Electoral College ignoring the votes of millions of people you tell me to recite the pledge of allegiance, your long-winded weak way of saying 'this is a republic, not a democracy'. You don't even have the balls to say it yourself and say that you don't care about millions of votes going in the trash, instead you say 'that's not where they go, do they teach civics anymore?' I've given you the opportunity to educate me yet you refuse and instead just appeal to authority without making the case yourself.

Also what exactly is it you think I want? You think I'm mad because Trump beat Hillary? Hillary was garbage, when Trump was elected I was cautiously optimistic. His rhetoric was xenophobic, yes, but also populist and anti-interventionist, and I was hoping he'd take a hatchet to the political establishment of this country without doing too much damage to the average person. I was of course totally wrong in hoping this, but if you assume that I'm sour because I didn't get Hillary you've made the classic case of assuming without asking and therefore making a total ass of yourself.
 
1. The Electoral College was founded in 1787.

2. In the past 20 years there has been two complaints to have the Electoral College done away with. Both complaints was by Democrats after the 2000 and 2016 Presidential Elections after Republicans won eclusively via Electoral votes.

3. There was no strong movement to have the Electoral College done away during the reign of a Democrat President between the aforementionened years.

Democrats are full of shit on this issue.
 
AngryPorto said:
You haven't addressed anything, when I complain about the Electoral College ignoring the votes of millions of people you tell me to recite the pledge of allegiance, your long-winded weak way of saying 'this is a republic, not a democracy'. You don't even have the balls to say it yourself and say that you don't care about millions of votes going in the trash, instead you say 'that's not where they go, do they teach civics anymore?' I've given you the opportunity to educate me yet you refuse and instead just appeal to authority without making the case yourself.

Also what exactly is it you think I want? You think I'm mad because Trump beat Hillary? Hillary was garbage, when Trump was elected I was cautiously optimistic. His rhetoric was xenophobic, yes, but also populist and anti-interventionist, and I was hoping he'd take a hatchet to the political establishment of this country without doing too much damage to the average person. I was of course totally wrong in hoping this, but if you assume that I'm sour because I didn't get Hillary you've made the classic case of assuming without asking and therefore making a total ass of yourself.
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Ok most black people live in the south
Removing the electoral college guarantees their vote will hold zero weight in these elections, ever
So why do you hate black people
 
cincymma79 said:
Ok most black people live in the south
Removing the electoral college guarantees their vote will hold zero weight in these elections, ever
So why do you hate black people
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I'd ask you how you made such an insane leap but I feel like it will do no good as you've know reduced your own argument to absurdity. Goodbye.
 
AngryPorto said:
I'd ask you how you made such an insane leap but I feel like it will do no good as you've know reduced your own argument to absurdity. Goodbye.
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Just talk to your friends who agree with you so you can feel validated. Hopefully they have no idea how our government is set up either.
 
cincymma79 said:
Just talk to your friends who agree with you so you can feel validated. Hopefully they have no idea how our government is set up either.
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nostradumbass said:
They don't. California has a shitload more electoral college votes than Montana and everyone else.
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Per capita places like Montana punch well above their weight.

While they only get 3 votes, that's 1 vote per 354,000.

Where California gets 55 votes, but it's 1 vote per 719,000 people.
 
Rematch said:
1. The Electoral College was founded in 1787.

2. In the past 20 years there has been two complaints to have the Electoral College done away with. Both complaints was by Democrats after the 2000 and 2016 Presidential Elections after Republicans won eclusively via Electoral votes.

3. There was no strong movement to have the Electoral College done away during the reign of a Democrat President between the aforementionened years.

Democrats are full of shit on this issue.
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I don't have an issue with the electoral college as system, it's the practice that's the problem.

Electoral college votes should be directly proportional to the population of a state and it's simply not the case.

If California had the same proportion of electoral votes as a state like Montana for instance, they would have 111 electoral votes, not just 55.
 
Hungry Joe said:
She would not have won but my vote would have been counted.
When Ross Perot ran he received 20 % of the popular vote but got 0 electoral college votes.
Trump beat Hillary in many more counties in IL but she received all of the votes in the college just like everyone knew she would. How many people stayed home rather than waste their time voting on something that was already determined? I’m not saying the elections aren’t about districts and swing states. I’m saying it shouldn’t be that way.

Is that what I’m like? Thanks for the info
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Your vote WAS counted. And it was lower than the one that got the electoral votes. In fact, it was lower than the 2nd and 3rd place person...Johnson got 3x more votes than Stein.

Jesus...can people actually be against something they actually understand first, for a change. Also, your argument is now that all electoral votes go to one person instead of being split up...which no one is arguing in favor of. That change came long after the college was created but Clinton still would have lost with the original system because the original system ensures that small areas have a voice and cannot be controlled by the population centers wants and needs.

How the fuck is this hard to understand? Major cities will have all the power. Their needs will be placed over the needs of all other parts of the nation, who has very different needs.

This shit isnt rocket science.
 
Rational Poster said:
I don't have an issue with the electoral college as system, it's the practice that's the problem.

Electoral college votes should be directly proportional to the population of a state and it's simply not the case.

If California had the same proportion of electoral votes as a state like Montana for instance, they would have 111 electoral votes, not just 55.
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Why do we only have this discussion when Democrats lose via Electoral College?
 
Rational Poster said:
Electoral college votes should be directly proportional to the population of a state and it's simply not the case.
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Seems like that would defeat the entire purpose. At that point you might as well just use the national popular vote.
 
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