prepared to fight a trained opp

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by devante, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i know there is alot of on and off conversation regarding self defense what works on the street and so on; nine times out of ten people assume the person theywill be fighting are untrained or something of that nature. An more than likely that is true...

    that being said i decided to examine the other side an ask u guys if u would be prepared or as confident if the person u were facing was trained; many people i know who do standup (boxing/mt/full contact karate/kickboxing/krav maga/etc) are confident knowing the people they are facing aren't trained.

    so if u knew the person u are or were facing was trained would it affect ur confidence or would u avoid a confrontation you might habe been more willing to get into; but now that u realize this person is good or better than u, u might not be as willing to fight him.

    i assume w/in a very short time span u could recognize a skilled opp from an unskilled one..
    or let's say somehow u got into a confrontation w/someone u knew was better than u were, would u be willing to fight still...

    i have gotten into fights w/people who are trained..an it's just a whole diff world.. an i have had near altercations w/guys who i was familiar w/ whom i knew would most likely hand me my ass; but that is just how it goes sometime.

    ex: guy i used to train at this judo club i went to, was a bjj bluebelt and actually had about 10 muay thai fights; well i was out w/a friend of mine and some kind of argument ensued and they were about to fight. I basically stepped in between them, cus i had a) grappled w/ this guy and b) seen him fight muay thai; so i was very aware what he was gonna do to my friend.. an it basically came to a point where this dude was gonna fight me instead... it ended up being averted. But i was really thinking this could get real ugly, not sayin i don't have faith in my skills or whatnot; but just being honest w/myself and knowledgeable of the person i was dealing w/. I would have fought him anyway if it came to that; cus regardless of what he would have done to me, he would have killed my friend. No joke he would have KILLED him...

    lets just say not having that built in adv of skills/awareness and in fact being at a disadvantage not just physically but tech, was a diff sort of thing and so i decided to get ur input.
     
  2. Chris Cook

    Chris Cook Amateur Fighter

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    killed is the right word.
    2 trained people, knowing how to seriously hurt someone, and letting something escalate into 100% fight without any safety.. no ref, no mat, no bell, just concrete and sharp things to cave your skull in , is probably both people going to jail for a very long time.

    stupid bar fight near my house this summer... one punch ... guy goes down on concrete, hits head, dies that week. guy that hit him trained some kind of striking.. dont remember, and got a 1st degree murder charge.

    id say think twice about ever hitting someone... then think some more. if your both trained?.. thats a disaster waiting to happen
     
  3. Richard Emling

    Richard Emling Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    i fight trained people all the time
     
  4. Marvin Covar

    Marvin Covar Amateur Fighter

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    bottom line: don't get into streetfights. the easiest way to win a fight is to walk away.
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'll say this in terms of the legal issues of streetfighting:

    You have to be intelligent enough to argue your case in-court. Personally I'm not afraid to take the time out of my life to sit down and go through the process of explaining to 12 citizens and a Judge why I either beat a person to within an inch of his life or to Death altogether. Quite simply anyone who is trained knows the difference between hurting someone and killing them, even strikers. So if Death is a result typically it's un-intentional (which if you're not the aggressor you cannot be charged with un-intentional harm that befalls an aggressor), and that's squared away fairly easy. If I or someone who is specifically trained, maims or kills someone as a result of conflict it should be easily explainable. By appearing afraid and submissive even in Court you may come off as feeling what you did was wrong, which a smart lawyer would use to get you to admit it and have you appear more dangerous than you are.

    Case in-point is an episode of Cops I saw once where these two dudes tried to rob this other guy who turned out to be a TKD Practitioner. When the Cops got there one dude was laying face-down in a pool of blood and the TKD dude had the other by his hair and was dropping elbows on his face. His right elbow and right shoe looked like he just dipped them in a bucket of blood, and his right knee also from where he dropped a couple of knees on the back of the other dude's head (how he ended up in a pool of blood). When the Cops got him off the guy he was elbowing he started crying because he thought he was going to go to prison, having thought the dude on the floor was dead (barely alive). The Cops explained to him that if he just told the Judge what happened, clearly it was a case of self-defense. The guys attacked him and he responded according to his training. And if th argument of excessive force was used, what is excessive when you're in the streets, randomly attacked, possibly outnumbered, and have NO idea what you're up against?

    Because the guy was a nice guy the Cops also offered to give testimony as to this. If you're in the right on an issue like this, there's nothing really to fear.
     
  6. aries

    aries Silver Belt

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    This seems like a rhetorical question. IF you know the guy is better than you then if you decide to fight then be prepared to accept a serious beating cause theirs no referee so you'll be at the mercy of your opponent once you're unable to defend yourself.
    Why would you fight someone you knew could beat you? If your pride gets the better of you then you better be prepared to take the pain.
     
  7. pistachio22

    pistachio22 Yellow Belt

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    Our trainer always tells us "If your ready to fight them, & your ready to hit them, then for f**ks sake be ready to catch them!"

    If I was fighting on the street it would only be because there was no other way of getting out of it, so i'd put my chin down & carry on with business regardless of skill or training. Purely to survive.

    The best way to avoid serious prosecution is to be upfront & confident about your actions, tell them you only reacted purely out of self preservation, as you were in no doubt (remember in NO doubt) of their intentions to do you serious damage. Remember your defense starts as soon as the police arrive so don't let the adrenaline & bravado of winning a fight take over your mouth.
     
  8. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    the reason i was going to fight him was basically he had been in the mindset where he was gonna fight someone, my friend is untrained and fairly tough; but looking at things objectively...this guy would have killed my friend.

    to be honest the whole situation could have been avoided, it was really just a misunderstanding; but my friend was w/his gf/friends and did not want to seem like he was being punked. So he challenged this guy and was talking alot of smack; now usually i would just let someone take the beatdown and only step in to keep someone from being hurt, cus most times it is more or less even.

    but in this case, the guy i knew was a bjj bluebelt and had some muay thai fights; i had grappled w/him before and seen him fight muay that, an we had a couple'a mma type sparring sessions. From my 1st hand exp of seeing him fight..and sparring him an having seen my friend fight and having sparred him; i could pretty much see where this was gonna go...

    so i was trying to break it up and stop it; but it got to a point where this dude just wanted to fight...an i could not let my friend fight this guy he would have KILLED him; i would probably lose, but it would be alot better than the beatdown my friend was gonna get and i had a chance of winning other than the 50/50 chance u have in any fight. Speaking from an a point of exp...skillset...and 1sthand knowledge of the guys ability.

    i did not want to or look towards fighting dude; but i could not let him fight my friend, an a funny thing was..this dude is wanna those calm...cool dudes..but is a killa; he was telling me get out of his was and let my friend get the beating he had coming. An i was like i can't do that, u know u could kill him; his thing was ur friend should of thought of that before, an he basically made the point either i let him eliminate my friend or i could stand in and take it for him... iT WAS NOT THAT CLEAR A CONVO; BUT U GET THE point, i know the guy he knows me and we both know wht one another knows and can do...

    luckily people stepped in and everything kinda fell apart from there..so everyone walked away w/out too much drama...

    the point of the thread is basically to present the situation where u might have to fight a person who knows what u know if not more; an is good as u are if not better, knowing how dangerous a fight is against a untrained person. Are u willing or prepared to fight someone who is trained.

    people here comment about bullies who are tough when they have the adv; but don't wanna fight when they at a disadvantage, so if all the guys here are prepared to fight some frat boy or some punk who has no skills and is bringing drama. Why does ur tune change when it is u facing a equally or superiorly skilled opp; if u avoid trouble..avoid it, but if ur gonna fight the untrained loudmouth...then prepared to fight the trained one.
     
  9. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    The final analysis: You're a good friend.

    I doubt I'd do well against a really trained opponent. By that I mean a guy who is training hard, sparring hard, grappling hard, etc. The reason is because I am not giving that kind of intensity to my training at this time in my life. Frick. We just had a baby. I'm lucky to get two workouts a week in. It is the whole 'the spirit is willing but the body is not...' You know. You feel like a stud until you start punching and kicking the heavy bag and realize, 'Frick! I'm gassing after 30 seconds...'

    So I guess the answer is I'm not prepared to fight the trained opponent. But you have to prioritize in life. Right now work and family take precedence over some phantom threat I may face someday who is a stand-up and ground wizard...
     
  10. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    And one more thing. You were a good friend.

    I hope your friend was willing to back you up if things got ugly. As in he wouldn't just let you turn purple from getting RNCed or GnPed to a pulp. I hope he'd have pulled the guy off of you.

    Regardless of martial art training...two versus one is pretty good odds. Not so much to lay a beat down on the guy, but enough to make sure it didn't go too far.
     
  11. Smash your face in

    Smash your face in Banned Banned

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    Fighting a BJJ blue belt who has 10 muay thai fights is a serious situation. You best get your teeth and thumbs stuck into his face asap!
     
  12. Michael Wanaka

    Michael Wanaka Amateur Fighter

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    One thing a former instructor of mine told me I will never forget. If you ever get into a streetfight and end up seriously injuring or killing someone, all you gotta say is "I feared for my life", and a lawyer can keep you out of trouble.
     

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