Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Bubble Boy, Jun 8, 2008.
If you don't want to know the results of Sengoku this week, then read no further...
In Sengoku this week, Olympic Judoka Hidehiko Yoshida fought Maurice Smith. Yoshida fought in his gi. Once the fight went to the ground (First Round), Yoshida secured a rock solid Kesa Gatame and necked cranked the hell out of Smith whilst simultaneously smothering him with his gi for the tap out.
WAR KESA GATAME!!!!!!!1111!!!!!1
Ive seen arguments back and forth for years in this forum about the utility of Kesa Gatame (Scarf Hold).
One side stating that it's nothing more than a transition position or just a weak pin.
The other side argues that it's one of the most powerful pinning positions there is, and that you can even tap an opponent with it.
It's been done a few times in the MMA arena, but not often...
However, it certainly is possible to tap someone with it in the club, and I know I've done it myself many times against decent players, I've had it done to me, and I've seen it done at pretty high levels in randori and tournaments.
How the hell did that even work? Any ideas?
And foreseeing the obvious forthcoming comments in this thread:
Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know, Maurice Smith sucks, he's old, yada yada...would never happen against a competent opponent.
Of course not.
Deloitte, he necked cranked him and also smothered him in his gi. I've had it done to me and it sucks balls dude.
Aren't neck cranks illegal in judo? so why would a person tap to a neck crank from kesa-gatame in judo?
I know you can neck crank from there, I'm just curious about the legality of it in a judo competition.
If it was obviously an attempt to neck crank you're right: It would get you disqualified in a judo tournament.
In club randori it's allowed at my club, not a problem. But we're a small recreational club. I imagine a big club training international competitors would frown on the kesa neck crank big time due to the risk of injuring a big time judo competitor.
The smothering part is fine though.
I actually got smothered by a kesa in a judo tournament. I didn't tap to the smother because the guy won by the pin in 20 seconds or whatever the time limit was. But another 5 seconds and I would have either gone unconscious or tapped. I simply could not breath.:redface: The kesa was so tight and his gi was like a hand over my mouth and nose.
same thing happened to me. the kesa was just so tight i could not even move my head to the side but i toughed it out to lose by pin
was it more the crank or the weight on chest and difficult breathing?
I've always been under the impression that this position sucks, you can easily get sweeped.
Oh damn, I loves me some kesa gatame. <3
If you don't do it right sure. It's hell breaking out of a solid kesa.
I've seen several very good BJJ guys get stuck in kesa and not be able to get out. Some years back one of the Gracie's was doing a seminar in the area and a Judo player showed up and put a kesa on him he couldn't get out of.
If a guy has a heavy kesa its absolutely sucks fucking balls to sweep. There are like 4-5 ways to sweep but if you aren't great at them and Tori is good at kesa, you are going to be fucking miserable.
Ah, judo terminology.
Tori = person doing the move
Uke = person taking the move
I just watched the fight and couldn't figure out what happened, the camera angle didn't show Mo Smith tapping but if he did tap to the kesa his ground really sucks for a guy who has supposedly been training in it for a long time.
It did look like yoshida was both squeezing and cranking upwards pretty hard.
Personally I use the kesa alot and love it. I think its more of a bigger/stronger mans forte however.
It's a useful position to practice. Some throws land you in that position on the mat, you dont want to go from top to bottom if you already have side control.
From there you can hold him down, move to an arm triangle or even switch to another side control position.
A good strong kesa is a very punishing pin if the guy on top can do it correctly.
Edson Carvalho tap my whole club few days ago with kesa gatame LOL
It can be really frustrating, he put enormous pressure on the lungs, plus he smother you with his GI, and as a bonus, sometimes he neck crank you :icon_lol::icon_lol:
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