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POTWR 2019 Vol 11: Can We All Test For Ourselves That The Earth Is Round?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Cubo de Sangre, May 27, 2019.

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  1. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Titanium Belt

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    PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE OP BEFORE POSTING.

    Greetings War Room Sherbros,

    Welcome to the next installment of the Presidential sticky-threads. I'll admit that this one seemed silly when first suggested by @abiG the he do a "change my mind" thread on the Earth being flat. Then I looked at this challenge he's basing it off of and the narrowly defined rule-set made more sense. We agreed that this thread was less about using all evidence to prove it's round, and more about if the average person can run their own experiments to know for sure.

    As someone who doesn't know much about science, I figured this thread should be educational at the very least. At best some Sherbro could maybe collect 10k. @abiG will lay out the details below.

    Cheers,

    Cubo


    ***This is an ongoing series of sticky-threads that will take on various topics in varying ways. If you're interested in leading a discussion on something please take a look at this thread and then send me a PM with your ideas.​

    POTWR 2019 Vol 1: Shots Fired! Examining Police Shootings In America
    POTWR 2019 Vol 2: Happy Happy Joy Joy
    POTWR 2019 Vol 3: Examining Opioid Addiction In America
    POTWR 2019 Vol 4: Repeal Or Respect The 2nd Amendment?
    POTWR 2019 Vol 5: Based On Known Facts, Would You Remove Trump From Office?
    POTWR 2019 Vol 6: Internet Security Basics
    POTWR 2019 Vol 7: Change My Mind That The Word "Platform" Is Orwellian
    POTWR 2019 Vol 8: Should The Right To Keep And Bear Arms Be An International Human Right?
    POTWR 2019 Vol 9: Is Social Media Access Damaging To Our Youth?
    POTWR 2019 Vol 10: What Do You Like About The War Room And What Would You Change?

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    Original Title: No experiment shows the earth to have curvature or that it moves through space... change my mind.

    Hey there all, ready to have some fun? For some time, for the most part as a thought experiment, I have been looking at our world from the astronomer's point of view. I started wondering how they can be so sure of our planet's motion, the insane, literally mind boggling speeds, the distances they tell us that stars are and even the shape of the earth itself. I have been learning so much that I had never learned in school.

    In these travels, I came across a challenge that offered anyone, $10,000, for just one single piece of factual and irrefutable evidence that shows the motion and the curvature of our earth.

    I thought, wow, since these idiot flat-earthers are so obviously crazy, this should not be much of an ask. So, I started looking at the experiments that have been done and I was at a loss, as they all showed that there was no movement. So I dug even deeper, and I came across a fascinating quote from the man, himself (no, not Becky):

    "While I was thinking of this problem in my student years, I came to know the strange result of Michelson’s experiment. Soon I came to the conclusion that our idea about the motion of the Earth with respect to the ether is incorrect, if we admit Michelson’s null result as a fact. This was the first path which led me to the special theory of relativity. Since then I have come to believe that the motion of the Earth cannot be detected by any optical experiment, though the Earth is revolving around the Sun."​
    --Albert Einstein

    Anyways, for any of our beloved WR geniuses that can pull this off, beyond the ten grand, you will become known the world over as the first person to prove experimentally, what most of the world simply takes as fact.

    As an added bonus, should you be able to demonstrate the bending and/or curving of still water, especially around a spinning ball, you will be awarded an additional $40,000 for a total of $50,000.

    THAT, I would really love to see.

    That said, and to be clear, be sure to understand the meanings/definitions of words like factual, fact, irrefutable, empirical and also understand the scientific method. One additional requirement is that your experiment(s) be replicable. That's basically it. Let's do some real science.

    The entire challenge that motivated this thread can be found here:


    Meet these simple requirements and not only will you have changed my mind, but you'll have a nice stack in your pocket to boot.

    Rules, Terms, and Conditions(please read carefully):
    Firstly, just to be exceptionally clear,
    Factual:
    - concerned with what is actually the case rather than interpretations of or reactions to it - actually occurring - of, relating to, or characterized by facts - of the nature of fact; real; actual

    Fact:
    - a thing that is INDISPUTABLY the case - something that has actual existence - an actual occurrence

    Irrefutable:
    - not capable of being refuted or disproved - impossible to deny or disprove - not refutable: incontrovertible

    Please keep the definitions of factual and irrefutable in mind when preparing, presenting, and receiving judgement on your evidence! Those two words are the main criteria by which everyone's evidence will be judged.

    1). In the comment section below, present ONE(you can do more if you'd like, but at least one) piece of factual and irrefutable evidence for a). the curvature and b). the motion of the alleged spinning ball earth.

    2). Each piece of evidence provided, for both the curvature and the motion MUST BE accompanied by an experiment, test, or method proving and showing the way through which you obtained your result.

    3). Your experiment, test, or method must be replicable and the same result must be obtained by myself and others in order for your evidence to be considered.

    There are many different kinds of experiments, tests and measurements that anyone should be able to do, to easily prove both the curvature and motion of the alleged spinning ball. If you need some ideas for such experiments, please see some examples below of others attempting to find both the curvature and motion of the alleged spinning ball:

    - Bedford Level 1838 (curvature)
    - Airy’s Failure 1871 (motion)
    - Michelson-Morley 1887 (motion)
    - Sagnac 1913 (motion)
    - Michelson-Gale 1925 (motion)

    4). Your evidence will be evaluated and judged using none other than the SCIENTIFIC METHOD itself!

    Just a quick reminder for anyone who has forgotten what the Scientific Method is and how it works: THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD: a method of research in which
    A). a problem is identified,
    B). relevant data are gathered,
    C). a hypothesis is formulated from these data,
    D). the hypothesis is EMPIRICALLY tested and
    E). data is analyzed and a conclusion is drawn.

    To quickly touch on D - EMPIRICALLY
    TESTED: EMPIRICAL:
    - based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience RATHER THAN THEORY or pure logic
    - derived from or guided by EXPERIENCE or EXPERIMENT
    - depending upon EXPERIENCE or OBSERVATION
    - PROVABLE or VERIFIABLE by EXPERIENCE or EXPERIMENT

    Thus, some examples of evidence that WONT qualify:
    - i heard it from...
    - i saw it on...
    - everyone knows this
    - the scientific community says so - NASA said so
    - Neil DeGrasse Tyson said so
    - the astronauts said so
    - the THEORY of gravity said so
    - so and so University said so
    - so and so scientist said so
    - Donald Pettit or Barry Wilmore filmed this from the "ISS"
    - evidence that only the "Hubble Space Telescope" or a "satellite" could see
    - evidence that only a certain University or "qualified" group of individuals can produce
    - PHOTOS: I hate to rule these out but for the sake of saving time, I am going to. Photos can be easily manipulated and thus will not be considered as evidence.

    VIDEOS: I will allow video footage as evidence because videos are harder to manipulate. You can attach a fisheye or wide angle lens and make a flat surface look curved(though this trickery will be exposed as soon as the camera pans up and down), but no matter the lens you fasten to your eyeball or camera, you simply CANNOT make a ball look perfectly flat. To make a ball look flat you would have to either use CGI or heavy post production editing and your fraud will be very easily exposed by the pixelation and distortion of pixels where you pulled your curved ball into a flat surface. This gets even more complicated the more the camera pans/tilts up and down. Thus, you can present video footage and it will be evaluated like all other evidence, using the Scientific Method. If we are unable to obtain the same results, your evidence will unfortunately not pass!

    Hopefully you get the idea. Your experiments and tests by which you obtained your evidence must be replicated. I care NOT about what ANYONE says or has seen or heard. If I(and anyone) cannot replicate your experiment and come to your same result, your evidence will NOT qualify.

    5). To make things more fair and of course interesting, I will have a special guest judge on the panel, none other than the amazing, smart and very talented, the man, the legend himself, Mr. Eric Dubay! He will join me in empirically testing your evidence and providing the final judgment. Please read the above rules one more time if you have to. Irrefutable facts of reality and the Scientific Method will be the judges of your evidence. Eric and I will simply be delivering the judgement to you.

    6). Please check the thread. If your evidence has already been presented and judged, I will likely just tag you under that comment in the interest of saving time. I may address the same evidence a couple times if need be but unfortunately I don't have time to repeat myself over and over and over again.

    7). If you are commenting under someone else's comment, please understand that reply priority will go to the initial commenter. If there will be extra time, myself or Eric, may respond to additional comments but priority will go to the original commenters. If you want to insure that YOUR evidence is seen, please comment it as a new comment and not as a reply to someone else as it may be missed that way.

    Cool. If your evidence hasn't been addressed by MYSELF or Eric, please consider your case still open. Judgement on your evidence will ONLY count from myself or Eric, not other commenters.

    9). To all my religious folks. Please pay attention to this rule! Though I very much do understand where you may be coming from, for the sake of sanity and keeping focus on flat earth, please refrain from religious debates and arguments. Earth is flat regardless of any religious text or religion saying so. Flat earth, has NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with spirituality(truth), which is of course different. I will be issuing future challenges for various commonly accepted religious beliefs so you will have the opportunity to express yourselves then but for the sake of keeping this thread focused on the topic of flat earth, please refrain from religious discussions here. Thank you!

    10). I am doing this challenge to help bring attention to this highly important topic. I am NOT doing it to start fights, attacks or arguments. THEREFORE, please refrain from foul language, attacks, and verbal abuse. If I do notice this happening you will be given ONE warning, after which, if you do not comply, you will be disqualified and blocked! I do NOT want to disqualify or block anyone because I want everyone to have an amazing and positive learning experience from everything that will be discussed so please don't make me do it. Keep your discussions civil and professional. Thank you!

    11). Have an amazing time! This should be fun and enlightening, more than anything. I want everyone to enjoy this so please contribute positively and we will all have a great time together no matter our differences!

    12). This isn't so much a rule but more of a request, if you are inclined to do so, please share this challenge with everyone you know. Together we will make a difference!

    If your evidence does NOT qualify or factually and irrefutably prove the spinning ball earth, you will be given an explanation as to why and how that is so. Your evidence will be evaluated based on the criteria above, therefore your explanation will provide the process by which we determined your evidence was NOT valid.

    If you DO provide this factual and irrefutable evidence that will once and for all establish that earth is in fact a water bending, ocean curving, spinning, tilting, wobbling and hurtling through infinite space into oblivion BALL, you WILL BE rewarded these $10,000 CASH (yes this is my photo and proof of the existence of the money) because believe me my dear baller friend, if you do, you deserve not just these $10,000 dollars but all of the money in the world that you could possibly ask for. You will be the first person in the history of human existence to prove factually the existence of the spinning ball earth.

    For the sake of this challenge however, you will only get $10,000. If you live in the United States and would like a 3 day/2 night trip to Los Angeles, California, I will pay for your travel and stay at The Montage Hotel in Beverly Hills and personally deliver the $10,000 cash to you, filmed live for Facebook and YouTube for the entire world to see. If you are not in the U.S. the money will be either wire transferred to you or converted to bitcoin and sent to you after which I will send you instructions on how to convert it to your home currency.

    As a bonus, if you or anyone you know, can demonstrate the bending and/or curving of still water(with a replicable experiment), especially around a spinning ball, you will be awarded an additional $40,000 for a total of $50,000 CASH. I will also reach out to the producers of the top talk shows in LA and ask that they air you and your amazing talent live for the world to see. You will be the first human in the history of humanity to do what the science community claims is happening today, right now, as we speak, with the spinning ball earth!

    “There are two ways to be fooled! One is to believe what ISN’T true; the other is to refuse to accept what IS true!” - Soren Kierkegaard

    The TRUTH fears no investigation!

    Thank you for reading and participating! Good luck!

    Have fun and good luck. I think it only fitting that it should be a War Roomer to grab this cash.
     
  3. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    The earth is neither flat nor completely round

    <seedat>
     
  4. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    Sure, Tyson says it's a pear, but that said, are you aware of an experiment that shows the earth to have curvature or that it moves through space?
     
  5. Trotsky

    Trotsky Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    The opening question of a long and stupid debate......
     
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  7. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    I'm no post reporter, but this thread was chosen to do here, specifically to prevent trolling.

    If you want to play along, start with:
    Why is it that all the experiments done to this point show no curvature nor movement?
     
    TheRealWill likes this.
  8. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    You are suggesting a deep, complicated and global conspiracy to keep the people of the world from knowing the earth is flat.

    Report me for suggesting that's absurd.
     
    no fat chicks and curryjunkie like this.
  9. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    I have not... this is about just one single experiment that proves motion and curvature. All the ones done to this date show none.

    This is about actual science.
     
  10. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    This is how the debate goes..... I show you any number of easily googable examples of a round earth and you say they are false and what you know is science.

    Its absurd.

    Play with me.... why? If flat why the absurd effort to hide it?

    What are the beginning and end of this flat earth? Begins at the day change? Do you see what I am saying? I hope so.

    It takes a moment to travel from whatever the end of the flat earth is to the front....
     
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  11. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    Nope, show me on google a replicated experiment that used the scientific method and you're in.

    And remember, if you can google one that demonstrates the bending and/or curving of still water, especially around a spinning ball, you will be awarded an additional $40,000 for a total of $50,000.

    Again, this is something that has never been shown experimentally.
     
  12. trident

    trident Water Belt

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    Anything I present you will not meet the standards of your "scientific method".

    Please explain to me the shape of this flat earth. Is it a rectangle? A circle? Can you draw the canvas of which we dwell for me? Because that's where your shit falls apart immediately.... when you get into a plane....
     
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  13. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    BS, the scientific method is very straight forward and if you are still confused all the necessary definitions are available in the OP.

    Here are some examples of experiments that have been done using that very method and are easily replicable:
    - Bedford Level 1838 (curvature)
    - Airy’s Failure 1871 (motion)
    - Michelson-Morley 1887 (motion)
    - Sagnac 1913 (motion)
    - Michelson-Gale 1925 (motion)

    My opinion is not relevant to this thread. Again, this is about actual science. Please start a thread if you wish to discuss mine and others opinions on such things.
     
  14. SIRGAY HARITONOB!

    SIRGAY HARITONOB! RED ARMY BELT

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    I've been waiting for this thread my entire life

    Edit: this post was obviously not up to par. Can a mod delete it or.. I will add some thoughts later.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  15. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Titanium Belt

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    In case anyone is wondering, here's what earns you a reply ban in this thread. Thanks to those who choose to conduct themselves properly.
     
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  16. tonni

    tonni Silver Belt

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    What if we organize a sherdog event and we all meet up irl and go check if we fall off the face of the earth? please do not reply ban me.
     
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  17. RerouteToRemain

    RerouteToRemain Silver Belt

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    Using high power optics while prone, specifically as flat to ground level as possible, possibly dig a hole so the optic is literally at ground level. Then in the same spot but from an elevated position, say 30' scissor lift. This would need to be done in an area that has a constant ground/sea level. Target would be a very bright visible small ball on the ground. After 1-2 miles the ball should disappear due curvature on the ground level optic but the 30' would visible for significantly longer.

    I'm not sure what areas are perfectly constant level enough to do this. Salt flats, sea, ? Provided you can find a place it should be a pretty easy experiment.

    I believe this has been done with ships out at sea, on beach vs hotel balcony. Balcony can see ships that disappear on ground.

    Is there a machine that can create gravity pulling towards a central core of a sphere while in a tank that creates it's own local atmosphere so our gravity, pressure, etc have no effect on it?

    If so I'd expect water to react like this with that sphere if it was introduced.

    [​IMG]

    Because for example any place you are on earth gravity is pulling to a straight down to a central point. So be it 10 feet, 100 feet or 100 miles away, water is being pulled straight down. It is curved but it would still roughly be the same distance from the core at any point in that body of still water (no currents, wind, etc) you chose.
     
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  18. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Titanium Belt

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    Bye.
     
  19. tonni

    tonni Silver Belt

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    it's the only way we, as a group, can find out.
     
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  20. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    LOL, that's one of the ones that got me thinking.

    What is actually more logical? That we don't fall off of a stationary plane?

    -or-

    That we don't fall off of a ball that is spinning at around 1000 MPH...
    as we fly around the sun at around 66,600 MPH...
    as we fly through the milky way at around 450,000 MPH...
    as we are moving through space at another 1,350,000 MPH?

    Seriously now...
     
    tonni likes this.
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