Crime POTWR 2019 Vol 1: Shots Fired! Examining Police Shootings In America

[Bloody Pulp]

Is this only for discussing shootings by officers? Been a bunch of officers shot and killed in the last few days but not sure if that’s for this discussion.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Here's the Active Self Protection breakdown on the cop shooting cop video.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Here's some good work by the police.

 

[nhbbear]

Is this only for discussing shootings by officers? Been a bunch of officers shot and killed in the last few days but not sure if that’s for this discussion.

Maybe in another thread. This one was designed to discuss shootings by police.

 

[nhbbear]

Btw, tomorrow I plan to introduce the topic of police shootings in the case of officers shooting dogs.

I have a few cases in mind, and will even detail four cases from my own department. One involving me(I did not shoot).

This is an extremely emotional topic, and actually generates more anger than police shootings of people, if you can believe that.

 

[Protectandserve]

Btw, tomorrow I plan to introduce the topic of police shootings in the case of officers shooting dogs.

I have a few cases in mind, and will even detail four cases from my own department. One involving me(I did not shoot).

This is an extremely emotional topic, and actually generates more anger than police shootings of people, if you can believe that.

I'll try and contribute to this one. Going on vacation though so we will see.

 

[nhbbear]

Ol, I lied. I do not have the time to have the dog discussion today.

 

[nhbbear]

I will quickly discuss four cases involving my department before I get into national cases

My department has had a pretty good record compared to most other departments in this area. Four dogs shot in 16 years. One was a a black lab that was a mercy kill after it had been run over by a car. I will actually link all three shootings(remember one was a mercy kill)as they have a funny twist.

1 officer called to scene of black lab that attacked a crack whore in an alley. Officer shows up and the dog charges and leaps at him. He shoots it in the head, dog runs off. No protests. Dog crawls under family porch to die. White trash family we know all too well.

2. black German Shepard that was always getting out and running in a bad neighborhood. I actually caught it when it was a puppy and was real close to taking it home. Would have had a better life.

Anyway, dog was always getting out and killing stray cats. Attacked a mail man and was banned from the city under the new vicious dog ordinance. I don’t agree with the ordinance because it targets breeds, not poor owners, but in this instance, the dog was banned because of poor ownership.

Dog is still living in the city despite being banned, and escapes again, where it is seen killing a cat in the alley. Once again, it chases a person who takes refuge on a car and the dog goes back to the house. The officer shows up, and as he is approaching the house, the dog charges the officer who shoots it and kills it. Black family well known to officers, family loves to file complaints, and this incident drew international attention thanks to Facebook. Protests in the streets and threats against officers. This dog and the previous one were shot by the same officer.

3. Black , unregistered(illegal)pit bull owned by a stripper, gets out and busts through a neighbor’s screen door and grabs their car, dragging it outside and kills it. Officer shows up(not the same one) and as he gets out of the car, the dog approaches and drops the mangled, half eaten cat. He shoots it twice as it comes at him. The dog survived, the cat did not. This one again, drew international attention thanks to Facebook and justice for ——- pages. 4,000 comments one this one. People in the UK and Germany make threats to kill officers and even post pictures of the protest that they put together with the dog’s name. Protest locally is poorly attended, though the postings continue with threats to kill the department k-9s(tell me, how does this make sense, to threaten to kill a dog over the shooting of a dog?). We actually had the fusion center(fbi center that can track threats online) keep track of this one.

I will throw one more in. In my neighborhood, a block away from my house, I am home grabbing a cup of coffee when a call goes out about an old woman being mauled by two Rottweilers. I am first to arrive and sure as shit, I see a woman on the ground screaming for help. The dogs are on top of her. I take the shot, but miss the dogs, hitting the woman instead-joking.

I pull out my taser and use the drive stun feature to make electricity surge across the weapon, but the sound scares the dogs away from her. The dogs had actually been after her small dog. The dog was injured, but survived. She had minor bites and scratches. As I move in to check on her, the dogs come back and I pull out my pepper spray and hose the dogs down, causing a comical scene of the dogs doing somersaults in the grass and running into each other like the three stooges. The dogs were owned by a vascular surgeon who pays for the woman’s injuries and the dog’s surgeries. I suspect they wrote her a check as well for her trouble. They escaped after a storm the night before caused a branch to fall on their fence. They immediately put up a giant fence, with several feet under ground so they could not dig under the fence. They walk the dogs past my house every day, and always say hello.

Now, as I said, these cases are all linked. Every one of the dogs shot were black, so obviously, my department has issues with black dogs. No, seriously, besides the first two being shot by the same officer, all three have an interesting link.

As I said, the first dog’s family were a white trash family. They named their black lab “******” which I know is going to be censored. But it is a very derogatory racist name for African Americans. The daughter in the first family makes several posts about how my department shot her dog, and her dog would never hurt anyone, it was a friendly black lab. No mention of the rabies and attacking a crackwhore and leaping at the officer. But she is posting up a storm. I, being me, get on my shitbag Facebook account(one solely for posting on issues that I would not be permitted to, or would get into trouble professionally) and tell this girl “omg, that is awful, I am so sorry. What was the dog’s name?” This is them picked up by the owner of the second dog, the one that had protests and a Facebook page drawing nationwide and international attention. She begins asking the girl what the dog’s name is as well, saying that she wants to put the dog’s name on her page for dogs murdered by my police department. She finally answers with some stupid and fluffy name, which now appears on the page. The last shooting actually had people threatening the cat owner for “allowing her cat to roam free” when it was pointed out that her cat was inside, the comments changed to “well, you should have had your door closed and not just a screen door.”

My point for the last part, is that people go insane when a dog is shot. I would absolutely lose my mind if I had a dog that was shot and killed, but all of the dog owners(save for the Rottweilers) were total shitheads. And I think that many of the dogs shot by American police would fall into this category as well. There are many examples where this is absolutely not the case, but for many, it is the case. A big part of this is because shitbag families do not take care of their dogs, similarly to them not taking care of their kids. Poorly raised dogs, like poorly raised children, become aggressive and poorly behaved. These families also tend to not pick fluffy and friendly dogs, but want the scary pittbulls that are also a status symbol akin to fancy shoes. These dogs often get out, and when they do, there are often violent outcomes for people walking their dogs or cats in peoples yards, in the alleys, and even in their houses. Officers conducting swat raids often encounter these dogs, that are aggressive, and are often shot.

I brought up the last incident because of the courageous actions of the officer who chose not to use lethal force, but instead, used alternative methods of force on the dogs. I have used the noise of the taser to scare away other aggressive dogs, and quite a few officers have successfully tasered dogs where they normally would have resorted to lethal force-one was an officer’s dog that had escaped(he had it for two days and was going to get rid of it because it showed aggression towards his son).

This will be included in my eventual post under how to decrease the number of police shootings of k-9s, because doing so, will help with community relations as well as the image of police.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

If someone killed my dog I'd want to murder them.

Based on the effectiveness of shock collars, tasering seems like it would work pretty good.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

If someone killed my dog I'd want to murder them.

Based on the effectiveness of shock collars, tasering seems like it would work pretty good.

OC spray will absolutely incapacitate a dog. Given how sensitive their noses are I'd say that shouldn't be surprising. Tasers are very likely to be fatal to dogs.

My only use of force against a dog was when I once lightly struck a dog with my baton, after it had bitten a coworker. This was during a warrant served on a guy who was essentially squatting in former mac nut fields. He had so many dogs kept in deplorable conditions, it was sickening. Many chained up where the chain was just cutting into them, others starving, others vicious and running around. Animal control said it was one of the worst cases they had ever seen.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

OC spray will absolutely incapacitate a dog. Given how sensitive their noses are I'd say that shouldn't be surprising. Tasers are very likely to be fatal to dogs.

Compared to gunshot wounds even?

I suppose we're all sympathetic up until we're the one getting chewed on.

My only use of force against a dog was when I once lightly struck a dog with my baton, after it had bitten a coworker. This was during a warrant served on a guy who was essentially squatting in former mac nut fields. He had so many dogs kept in deplorable conditions, it was sickening. Many chained up where the chain was just cutting into them, others starving, others vicious and running around. Animal control said it was one of the worst cases they had ever seen.

What a sad mess to have to deal with.

Is there a personality type that handles it best?

 

[nhbbear]

According to a study, police kill a dog every 98 minutes. I could cite specific cases of American police shooting dogs, but it actually unnecessary because no one case is much different than another. Approximately 25 dogs are shot and killed by American police every day. In two cities, Buffalo, NY, and Atlanta, Georgia, the number of dogs killed in a several years period, that it prompted the justice department to declare it an epidemic(Buffalo 92 dogs in 3 years and Atlanta 100 dogs in 2 year period).


There are numerous websites and Facebook pages dedicated to the epidemic of puppycide. With almost 50% of American households owning dogs and consider their dogs members of the family. The killing of dogs by American police often generate more anger than the killing of people. Further contributing to the anger are unclear and inflated numbers, such as the puppycide website claiming 500 dogs are killed each and every day, amounting to an approximate number of 130,000 dogs per year. As stated, the actual number hovers around 25 per day. In fact, half of all shots fired by police are aimed at dogs.


The causes for this epidemic range from an increased number of swat raids, to dogs getting lose in neighborhoods. Still other causes are the fear, with an estimated 72 million people suffering from a phobia of dogs(cynophobia), which obviously includes police officers among that number, and 4.5 million dog bites per year, most of which are children-which leads to fear of dogs later in life.


Ways to decrease this number. Training, training, training. Teaching police the signs of an actual threat posed by a dog vs the dog being scared or bluffing and teaching officers methods to de-escalate and calm dogs down. Computer simulations have been shown to help. The use of less lethal options can greatly decrease the number of dogs shot by police(as I discussed in my previous post). Swat teams have begun employing officers specifically tasked with dealing with k-9 threats, even carrying fire extinguishers to scare away dogs during the raids due to the commonplace tactic of drug dealers to have dogs on the premises to scare of potential robbers or police. Carrying dog treats in police cruisers.

 

[nhbbear]

OC spray will absolutely incapacitate a dog. Given how sensitive their noses are I'd say that shouldn't be surprising. Tasers are very likely to be fatal to dogs.

My only use of force against a dog was when I once lightly struck a dog with my baton, after it had bitten a coworker. This was during a warrant served on a guy who was essentially squatting in former mac nut fields. He had so many dogs kept in deplorable conditions, it was sickening. Many chained up where the chain was just cutting into them, others starving, others vicious and running around. Animal control said it was one of the worst cases they had ever seen.

Actually, tasers are rarely fatal against dogs and is included in the training in taser courses.

 

[nhbbear]

Compared to gunshot wounds even?

I suppose we're all sympathetic up until we're the one getting chewed on.


What a sad mess to have to deal with.

Is there a personality type that handles it best?

Not really, but familiarity with dogs helps. There has not been a fatal mauling of a police officer in the last 70 years. Almost no amount of training will completely mitigate the fear for people with a serious fear of dogs. I have been bitten three times in 16 years, the most serious was a small dog that almost took the tip of my finger off. One incident involved a lab grabbing my gun hand while I was clearing a house where reported armed subjects had broken into the house. And another incident where a pit bull grabbed my forearm where I did not even report it because I was afraid the dog would be euthanized.

Unless you are a child or a female, there is not a significant threat posed by dogs in the US. In Brazil, Russia, and India where packs of feral dogs result in deaths every year, the situation is much different.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

In fact, half of all shots fired by police are aimed at dogs.

and 4.5 million dog bites per year, most of which are children-which leads to fear of dogs later in life.

So while the blame might not all fall on the police, dogs are the dumb animals and man's best friend. Maybe a couple jars of peanut butter or some other tasty treat would bridge the gap?

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Actually, tasers are rarely fatal against dogs and is included in the training in taser courses.

Well I'll defer to you here, you certainly would be more up to date on that. I remember being told they were often fatal for dogs around like 2010 or so.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Not really, but familiarity with dogs helps. There has not been a fatal mauling of a police officer in the last 70 years. Almost no amount of training will completely mitigate the fear for people with a serious fear of dogs. I have been bitten three times in 16 years, the most serious was a small dog that almost took the tip of my finger off. One incident involved a lab grabbing my gun hand while I was clearing a house where reported armed subjects had broken into the house. And another incident where a pit bull grabbed my forearm where I did not even report it because I was afraid the dog would be euthanized.

Unless you are a child or a female, there is not a significant threat posed by dogs in the US. In Brazil, Russia, and India where packs of feral dogs result in deaths every year, the situation is much different.

Great points.

Beyond fatality, how about incidents of maiming? If a pit has my limb in its mouth I'm pulling the trigger. Hopefully my instinctual and authoritative command of "Sit!" means it doesn't come to that. But damn, it would depend on the dog and circumstances.

 

[Trotsky]

Not really, but familiarity with dogs helps. There has not been a fatal mauling of a police officer in the last 70 years. Almost no amount of training will completely mitigate the fear for people with a serious fear of dogs. I have been bitten three times in 16 years, the most serious was a small dog that almost took the tip of my finger off. One incident involved a lab grabbing my gun hand while I was clearing a house where reported armed subjects had broken into the house. And another incident where a pit bull grabbed my forearm where I did not even report it because I was afraid the dog would be euthanized.

Unless you are a child or a female, there is not a significant threat posed by dogs in the US. In Brazil, Russia, and India where packs of feral dogs result in deaths every year, the situation is much different.

Your contributions to the thread have been very enlightening. I remember that video from a couple years ago where the cops, who hadn't been called to the house or anything and were just cutting through to another property, hopped a family's yard fence and then fatally shot their dog when it ran at them. Shit made me so goddamn mad.

Just had a retired cop who shot a family's dog here in St. Louis for walking on his lawn. That he got a small fine for animal cruelty was considered a huge win for police justice advocates.

OC spray will absolutely incapacitate a dog. Given how sensitive their noses are I'd say that shouldn't be surprising. Tasers are very likely to be fatal to dogs.

My only use of force against a dog was when I once lightly struck a dog with my baton, after it had bitten a coworker. This was during a warrant served on a guy who was essentially squatting in former mac nut fields. He had so many dogs kept in deplorable conditions, it was sickening. Many chained up where the chain was just cutting into them, others starving, others vicious and running around. Animal control said it was one of the worst cases they had ever seen.

I think every LEO should have additional holsters to carry around a spray bottle and a rolled-up newspaper for such instances.

So while the blame might not all fall on the police, dogs are the dumb animals and man's best friend. Maybe a couple jars of peanut butter or some other tasty treat would bridge the gap?

You shouldn't give police officers people food.

@Cubo de Sangre I'll do it myself

 

[nhbbear]

So while the blame might not all fall on the police, dogs are the dumb animals and man's best friend. Maybe a couple jars of peanut butter or some other tasty treat would bridge the gap?

Wait, who told you about me, that dog, and the peanut butter? She said she would never tell anyone! And it’s not gross because it was a female dog, if it had been a male dog, that would have been gross.