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Opinion POST-TRUTH: Historian BERNARD Lewis nailed it in '93

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by guns&moses, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. guns&moses Blue Belt

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    Bernard Lewis is, what he qualifies as, an Orientalist.

    Pretty much a non-Near/Middle/Far Eastern dude who specializes in Near/Middle/Far Eastern culture, specifically Arab and Islamic culture. A historian and linguist.

    Anyways, I am re-reading his book, Islam and the West, and in a chapter that delves into the question of the "Orientalist", Lewis starts tearing a fellow scholar (an Arab scholar) a new asshole for, more or less, condemning the White Western American and European Scholars for dipping their toe into the history of the Arab, and subsequently, rebuts this Arab scholar-guys' research and nativist position as being absolute shit.

    But that's not the point. He rips off this screed, below in italics, that pretty much sums up what I see as the problematic way discourse and dialogue has evolved lately, at least in the US. Motherfuckers can just throw shit out there and claim it as valid, truthful and correct and their minions will latch on and parrot that stance (see Donald J Trump and his barnacles; see Adam Schiff and his coven of mongoloids) And while Lewis is focusing his disgust at a very specific dude with a very specific agenda in a specific field of study, the spirit of it explains our current Far Left vs Far Right, Progressive vs Conservative, Jones 3-2 vs Reyes 3-2, etc. And old boy called it back in '93:

    According to the currently fashionable epistemological view, absolute truth doesn't matter; facts don't matter. All discourse is a manifestation of a power relationship, and all knowledge is slanted. Therefore, accuracy doesn't matter; evidence doesn't matter. All that matters is the attitude--the motives and purposes--of the user of the knowledge, and this may be simply claimed for oneself or imputed to another. In imputing motives, the irrelevance of truth,facts, evidence, and even plausibility is a great help. The mere assertion suffices. The same rules apply to claiming a motive; goodwill can be established quickly and easily by appropriate political support.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  2. GiTGuD Is she gonna turn in powerful people? Banned

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    So basically the Consoles Fanboi Wars, Xbox vs Playstation represents life/politics......I already knew this back when I was like 12 years old.
     
  3. SRN SOCRATEEEES

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    Bernard Lewis dude, Bernard. lol

    EDIT:
    He knows what he's talking about, he's a walking encyclopedia when it comes to ME. If you guys like history and want to try and understand ME you should start with this book here.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. goldennirvana Satanic black magic!

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    *Bernard Lewis
     
  5. ultramanhyata Reclimbing Like Mountain

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    Never a big fan of his stand-up but the book sounds interesting.

     
  6. guns&moses Blue Belt

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    Christ, thanks man. Fixed.
     
  7. Khabib Khanate Hashashiyan Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'm like 97% certain you're talking about Edward Said who wrote Orientalism back in the day. Said and Lewis really did not like each other and basically represent opposite ends of the spectrum in their field of study with leftist, anti-imperialist types siding with Said and more right wing, establishment types siding with Lewis.
     
  8. guns&moses Blue Belt

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    Dat weed, gentlemen.
     
  9. guns&moses Blue Belt

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    Yep, Said. Like I said, who's right here wasn't really my point. More interested in Lewis' take on, pretty much, alternative facts.
     
  10. Khabib Khanate Hashashiyan Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You know when I read the OP I was like "Richard Lewis? Never heard of him, maybe some relation to Bernard Lewis?"

    Should've figured he really meant Bernard based on his inability to remember Said.
     
  11. Khabib Khanate Hashashiyan Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I know but tbh I would be more interested in a Lewis vs Said thread though admittedly I haven't read much of either.
     
  12. Khabib Khanate Hashashiyan Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    @Limbo Pete what is your take on Lewis and Said? I figure you're more of a Said guy but how would you rate the work of Lewis? IIRC its a bit outside your specific sub field but I figure you're about as informed as anyone on this forum in regards to these two
     
  13. phoenixikki Black Belt

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    That's cultural marxism in a nutshell. You can thank leftists for this abhorrence.
     
  14. Falsedawn The Opposition Platinum Member

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    Kulturbolschewismus!!!!!!! *shakes fist*
     
  15. guns&moses Blue Belt

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    The other side is just as guilty, man. Day one of Trump's presidency we were introduced to "alternative facts". Trump can't say it didn't rain on Inauguration Day and claim that as truth. It fucking rained. He cannot claim that it was the largest inauguration crowd in the history of the presidency. He can't claim that the tax cuts will pay for themselves when they can't. And on and on. Like Lewis said, all that matters is attitude and truth can be claimed. It's about volume and projection and the MAGA crowd is just as loud and stupid as the far left.
     
  16. bobgeese Gold Belt

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  17. Trotsky Banned Banned

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    More and more I'm beginning to sense that random capitalization is becoming a core tenet of American conservatism.
     
  18. Limbo Pete Fake History Man

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    Lemme get back to you on this. I have many thoughts on historical methodology but am stuck at work for the next several hours tho.
     
  19. Khabib Khanate Hashashiyan Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'll hold you to it.
     
  20. Wingslaught Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Very astute observation. Just ask Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:

    Ocasio-Cortez: Facts Don't Matter When You're 'Morally Right'
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2019/01/07/ocasio-cortez_facts_don039t_matter_when_you039re_039morally_right039_462912.html
     

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