Post Concussive Syndrome Question

Hey man, Just wanted to say thanks for your posts on the PCS thread it had alot of helpful info on there.
Hope you are 100% and back in training. Did you end up returning and competing?

I am in pretty much exact same situation. I'm 27 now, boxed from 14-19 and fought 4 times then quit to focus on my career and went back early this year.

Training was going excellent, my speed and power was where I wanted it to be.
But one day (June 2018)during drills (not even sparring) I took a 10% powered punch and afterwards I had consussive symptoms like memory loss, nausea dizzy etc. It got alot worse, then about 2 weeks later a similar thing happened.

I got an MRI done and it turned out that my brain looks healthy (I've never been KO'd or severely rocked)
Anyways I been training the last few months and finally sparred a few rounds last week (Sept 2018) Felt fucking amazing, we were going about 50% power and I ate a few jabs nothing crazy. Afterwards I felt a headache...no dizzyness or nausea...or sensitivity to noise or light. Just headache. and slight brain fog which lasted a few days.

Doctors told me I should be careful and that it could be PCS few months ago, but it's a bitter pill to swallow. Feel the same as you posted....wasted talent. I dont want to go pro, I have a great career. But just wanted to prove to myself I could step in there again. The last few days been fucking difficult because I genuinely love the sport and physically besides the headaches could have competed again.

Any of your advice I would appreciate given you've gone through a similar road. Thanks
S

So sorry to hear that you're experiencing PCS. It's definitely tough on the psyche when you're passionate about something but cannot participate in it.

I'm more or less back to 100% regarding PCS. My other injuries are also recovering well, but they are a work in progress; I'm working out once per week at an intense pace, and a mild pace for the rest of the week. No martial arts yet, though the itch is still there! Every single UFC or boxing event I watch amps me up, and makes me want to hop back in the ring. But I'm not sure I'll ever get back to it. Is the reward worth the risk? I just don't know yet. What I do know, however, is that I'm going to be in top shape before I even consider stepping foot inside a ring again.

But enough about me. If you've read through this thread, all of my musings on the topic are there. Take from it what you will. Here are some points:

1) Keep an open, yet critical, mind about what is or isn't relevant to your condition, the causes of your condition, or what people tell you about how to resolve it. PCS is not well understood. Resolving it really seems to be a lot of trial and error... and patience. I think more than anything, it was probably the time that contributed most to my recovery.

2) PCS can manifest physically and psychologically. Just keep that in mind. The PCS wiki article covers this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-concussion_syndrome

3) Get enough sleep (like 9 hours we're talking here) and eat healthily, including by staying hydrated and perhaps supplementing with vitamins and nootropics. (I've abstained from drinking alcohol and doing recreational drugs completely as of June of this year.)

4) This probably doesn't need to be said, but try to avoid doing the things that aggravate your symptoms.

5) If I were you (everything in this bulletpoint hereafter is more anecdotal than scientific), I'd avoid boxing for at least a year and work on your strength (with weights) and conditioning. I'd also consider doing neck exercises as well, so your head can better absorb blows. If you were not in shape going into sparring (or simply hitting the pads), that might be related to why you sustained more damage than you should have. Again, this is more anecdotal than scientific, but striking is an explosive, turbulent activity. If you are not used to that kind of explosive activity i.e. the literal shock of hitting bags or pads, on your body, or getting hit in return, you and your brain might be more vulnerable to damage. I was out of shape when I last sparred and received a concussion, which is where I'm coming from with this.

As an example, when I was terribly weak and out of shape just a couple months ago, I went for two rounds on a 100lb heavy bag. With each blow, it felt like my brain was shaking inside my skull. With each blow, it felt like a shockwave riddling my musculoskeletal system. And with each blow, I had to brace myself for what felt like a sensation that could cause some sort of damage and bring my PCS back (it didn't). Of course, we might just chalk this up to muscle memory recovery, but I felt extremely weak hitting the bag. No doubt if I had been sparring rather than simply hitting a bag, the sensation would have been much worse and it's not hard to imagine that a hard blow to the head would have lead to a significantly worse outcome than simply hitting a heavy bag. Now that I'm in better shape, this feeling while hitting the bag has subsided. Anyway, your current state of fitness is something to consider before getting back in the ring.

6) Lastly, if symptoms persist, don't give up hope. I had some dark times during recovery, thinking I would never get better. It took me two years and then some. I may not be able to ever box again, but at least I can live a normal life now.

I think that about covers it. Good luck, man. I hope you can get back in there! And if you need to talk it out, don't hesitate to message me. Venting to someone you know has been through what you're going through can be quite therapeutic.

EDIT:
One last thing: there are "concussion clinics" in existence that do research and therapy on concussions and PCS. There might be one in your area, and it might be worth it to schedule an appointment there.
 
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So sorry to hear that you're experiencing PCS. It's definitely tough on the psyche when you're passionate about something but cannot participate in it.

I'm more or less back to 100% regarding PCS. My other injuries are also recovering well, but they are a work in progress; I'm working out once per week at an intense pace, and a mild pace for the rest of the week. No martial arts yet, though the itch is still there! Every single UFC or boxing event I watch amps me up, and makes me want to hop back in the ring. But I'm not sure I'll ever get back to it. Is the reward worth the risk? I just don't know yet. What I do know, however, is that I'm going to be in top shape before I even consider stepping foot inside a ring again.

But enough about me. If you've read through this thread, all of my musings on the topic are there. Take from it what you will. Here are some points:

1) Keep an open, yet critical, mind about what is or isn't relevant to your condition, the causes of your condition, or what people tell you about how to resolve it. PCS is not well understood. Resolving it really seems to be a lot of trial and error... and patience. I think more than anything, it was probably the time that contributed most to my recovery.

2) PCS can manifest physically and psychologically. Just keep that in mind. The PCS wiki article covers this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-concussion_syndrome

3) Get enough sleep (like 9 hours we're talking here) and eat healthily, including by staying hydrated and perhaps supplementing with vitamins and nootropics. (I've abstained from drinking alcohol and doing recreational drugs completely as of June of this year.)

4) This probably doesn't need to be said, but try to avoid doing the things that aggravate your symptoms.

5) If I were you (everything in this bulletpoint hereafter is more anecdotal than scientific), I'd avoid boxing for at least a year and work on your strength (with weights) and conditioning. I'd also consider doing neck exercises as well, so your head can better absorb blows. If you were not in shape going into sparring (or simply hitting the pads), that might be related to why you sustained more damage than you should have. Again, this is more anecdotal than scientific, but striking is an explosive, turbulent activity. If you are not used to that kind of explosive activity i.e. the literal shock of hitting bags or pads, on your body, or getting hit in return, you and your brain might be more vulnerable to damage. I was out of shape when I last sparred and received a concussion, which is where I'm coming from with this.

As an example, when I was terribly weak and out of shape just a couple months ago, I went for two rounds on a 100lb heavy bag. With each blow, it felt like my brain was shaking inside my skull. With each blow, it felt like a shockwave riddling my musculoskeletal system. And with each blow, I had to brace myself for what felt like a sensation that could cause some sort of damage and bring my PCS back (it didn't). Of course, we might just chalk this up to muscle memory recovery, but I felt extremely weak hitting the bag. No doubt if I had been sparring rather than simply hitting a bag, the sensation would have been much worse and it's not hard to imagine that a hard blow to the head would have lead to a significantly worse outcome than simply hitting a heavy bag. Now that I'm in better shape, this feeling while hitting the bag has subsided. Anyway, your current state of fitness is something to consider before getting back in the ring.

6) Lastly, if symptoms persist, don't give up hope. I had some dark times during recovery, thinking I would never get better. It took me two years and then some. I may not be able to ever box again, but at least I can live a normal life now.

I think that about covers it. Good luck, man. I hope you can get back in there! And if you need to talk it out, don't hesitate to message me. Venting to someone you know has been through what you're going through can be quite therapeutic.

EDIT:
One last thing: there are "concussion clinics" in existence that do research and therapy on concussions and PCS. There might be one in your area, and it might be worth it to schedule an appointment there.

Neck exercises might help with the headaches, if you strengthen the muscles along the spine it helps to absorb blows to the head. Plus make sure you have a straight spine and do correctional exercises for the spinal alignment.
 
Neck exercises might help with the headaches, if you strengthen the muscles along the spine it helps to absorb blows to the head. Plus make sure you have a straight spine and do correctional exercises for the spinal alignment.
Careful not do muscle stengthening exercises that Jack your spine though.
 
Two articles discussing neck injuries themselves as the culprit of PCS cases and symptoms, not concussions.

https://completeconcussions.com/2017/03/14/neck-causing-concussion-symptoms-part-1/
https://completeconcussions.com/2017/03/14/neck-causing-concussion-symptoms-part-2/

Related self-update:

Quite sure I'll be repeating myself here, but this probably deserves repeating. The issue has never been more apparent than it is right now: my back (including the trapezius muscles) and neck flexibility have been immensely poor up until this point in time.

Historically, I've had shoulder issues since my teens. I always attributed this to naturally poor shoulder physiology, but now I'm thinking these issues were due to a severely tight back and neck, which only got worse with time. I always had shoulder pain, and I couldn't lift my arms straight up above my head like anyone with normal flexibility should have been able to.

Between 15 and 30, I almost never stretched (and when I did, it was brief, I was doing it wrong, and I focused only on a few muscles). Even though I was physically active during this time, I also did a lot of sitting and hunching at the computer or tv, orienting my head in one direction 95% of the time: forward.

The logical conclusion here is that my back and neck adapted to these weak positions, the muscles becoming fixed like dried glue over the years. By 30, I couldn't even turn my head to look behind me while backing up my car without stiffness. This stiffness was obviously not doing me any favors athletically.

Advancing this conclusion further, one might assume that if I were to get punched in the head (especially after months off of any physical activity due to separate knee injuries, causing even more tightness in my neck and back due to sedentariness), that the resulting long-term stiffness and weakness of these muscles might not be able to sustain even a light blow. The head is attached to the neck. It takes far less force to sustain a neck injury than it does a brain injury (see first article), so even a light blow could have injured this compromised neck/back of mine without necessarily injuring my brain, all the while producing similar symptoms to a concussion.

So, we go back to that fateful sparring session. Perhaps I sustained a neck injury to a neck/back that, at that point in time, had reached a critical level of stiffness--a level of stiffness that could not tolerate a series of light punches. That neck injury then led to concussive symptoms, but not actually a concussion, as the articles I posted above might suggest.

Why I’m bringing this issue back to the surface is this: I finally figured out how to stretch correctly and have been opening up my back and neck like never before. It has made me again reassess my previous assumptions regarding my supposed concussion. It has provided more support for my argument that this event was not in fact, a concussion, but whiplash or a neck injury due to severely tight muscles.

Deep hand massage has revealed massive knots in both neck and back. So has foam rolling. Left and right sides are tight in different areas, and my left side is much tighter than my right, overall.

Shoulder pain, range, and mobility have improved from this body work. Neck mobility has improved also. The neck muscles that attach to the top of my skull (likely the top portions of the traps) are also being stretched like they haven't before.

Devil's advocate: one may argue that my neck and back stiffened after this sparring session from taking time off from exercise due to the injury, and that's why the stretching now feels so good. Though I don't think that to be the case. Perhaps that time off contributed to the stiffness that was already there, but thinking back across many instances in my life, my neck and shoulders have felt stiff and rigid for a very long time, far before this sparring session.

Obviously, my goal is to keep doing these stretches and regain my neck/back strength and lost range of motion and see what benefits can be reaped from doing so.

So that's the update. Continuing to keep an open mind about what happened that day.
 
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Thanks for the update. I’m glad to hear things are going better and it’s interesting to read about how neck and back injuries can attribute to and show up as head trauma.
Keep after it and update us again when you can
 
I've been dropped once in sparring. I was out for only a split second and my coach asked me if I slipped. One second I was standing, then I found myself on my knees. I'm done with anything but super light sparring. I need my brain for stuff.
 
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