Post Concussive Syndrome Question

wallflower

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I have about a decade of on and off boxing experience under my belt. Never competed, did a lot of sparring and have never had a concussion up to this incident. A little less than two years ago, after drinking a 40oz (which I was tipsy from, and not hammered) and smoking some weed, a friend and I decided to do some light sparring in his yard (I've never sparred in this state, call it a lapse in judgement). Our exchanges were very light, more like taps, but by the end of it my head was pounding. Fast forward two weeks, and I have all the symptoms of PCS--memory is shit, can't focus, 24/7 headache, sensitivity to light and sound, playing video games gives me headaches, exercise gives me a headache, conversing for more than 5 minutes gives me a headache, relatively muted inner dialogue. I ended up seeing a doctor at this point at one of those emergency clinics. She looked at me incredulously when I explained it to her and told me something along the lines of "Don't do that again and rest." Didn't give me an MRI or anything. So, ~4 months later, with these symptoms still persistent and acceptance that this probably wouldn't just go away on its own, I scheduled a visit with my PCP. He gave me a CT scan but it came up clean.

Almost two years later I'm healed 95%. The only residual effect is that my concentration seems slightly off and I get headaches if I play video games for too long.

But I still feel that once I am healed 100%, that I may want to get back into boxing and compete. Obviously, I'm worried about this happening again since it's been a long and hellish road to recovery. Does anyone have experience with PCS and then returning to training afterward? I'd like to hear your experience and suggestions.
 
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Dealing with some of the same issues. Unfortunately one concussion leads to the possibility of having another one more easily.

Can't really give you any advice, but hope you recover fully. There are some factors like age, duration of symptoms, what your symptoms are, injury history, and a protocol you should follow if you decide getting back into it: http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1015-51632016000200009
 
If you've been training and sparring for nearly 10 years but never had a concussion...but then that light sparring session gave you the 1st ever concussion, then it's probable that everything before that light sparring while drunk session, was what really fucked you up (and not as much, this light session)....but you just toughed it out before and now it's caught up to you. And after 10 years of this, your brain doesn't like it anymore and is more susceptible to being concussed.

I'm not sure if you can get healed 100% even with no sparring for 2 years. The longest I've waited after a serious, secondary concussion was about 6 months. I don't think this will go away. Just don't spar hard often or at all....and don't get hit a lot.
 
If you've been training and sparring for nearly 10 years but never had a concussion...but then that light sparring session gave you the 1st ever concussion, then it's probable that everything before that light sparring while drunk session, was what really fucked you up (and not as much, this light session)....but you just toughed it out before and now it's caught up to you. And after 10 years of this, your brain doesn't like it anymore and is more susceptible to being concussed.

I'm not sure if you can get healed 100% even with no sparring for 2 years. The longest I've waited after a serious, secondary concussion was about 6 months. I don't think this will go away. Just don't spar hard often or at all....and don't get hit a lot.

That certainly sounds quite likely. I did get hit more than a few times... and hard, during my decade of sparring. Never been knocked down, never been knocked out. Just got to see the cosmos every now and then.

Part of me wants to say it was the mixture of weed and alcohol (dehydrated brain, abnormal brain chemistry), and the fact that I had done almost no exercise 4-5 months prior to this light sparring (my neck and back muscles were weak and atrophied from lack of exercise, thus my head took all the force of impact instead of my neck and back). I also did engage in a light sparring session with the same guy two days before, so maybe the almost back-to-back sparring sessions had something to do with it as well.

Another part of me says Occam's Razor--the simplest explanation is usually the right one, in other words, what you've described.

It just pisses me off because I know I have unused potential, and when I was younger I was afraid to commit to actual fighting and stuck to only sparring to potentially save my pride; in my mind an L on my record was worse than having no record at all. Immature and cowardly. In this sense, I've never considered myself a real boxer, and now that I feel courageous enough to fight, it turns out that I now have to be afraid of a completely separate issue; it's no longer about losing my pride if I lose a fight, but getting PCS permanently... or worse. It may be that I really shouldn't ever enter the ring again, in a recreational, but more importantly, competitive capacity, and that saddens me.

FML, maybe it's time to seriously consider BJJ.
 
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Part of me wants to say it was the mixture of weed and alcohol

Weed? Probably not, although it can fuck with your reaction time and make you easier to hit. Booze though? Abso-fucking-lutely. In fact, I think thats more likely than you, a hobbyist, taking so much damage over the last few years that you're now going the Chuck Liddell route.
 
Weed? Probably not, although it can fuck with your reaction time and make you easier to hit. Booze though? Abso-fucking-lutely. In fact, I think thats more likely than you, a hobbyist, taking so much damage over the last few years that you're now going the Chuck Liddell route.

I mean, that would be great. It would be amazing in fact. It does make sense in an anecdotal sort of way and does support one of my initial hypotheses (dehydrated brains are more susceptible to concussion). Do you know of any research you can point me to focused on alcohol affecting blows to the head? This is literally the only time I've sparred while drunk.
 
I mean, that would be great. It would be amazing in fact. It does make sense in an anecdotal sort of way and does support one of my initial hypotheses (dehydrated brains are more susceptible to concussion). Do you know of any research you can point me to focused on alcohol affecting blows to the head? This is literally the only time I've sparred while drunk.

No studies but I know an excellent neurosurgeon who I've asked. His response was, more or less, "Duh".
 
No studies but I know an excellent neurosurgeon who I've asked. His response was, more or less, "Duh".

Alright, so let me get this straight. You've asked a neurosurgeon whether or not being drunk while sparring or fighting can lead to easier concussions? I know there are many medical opinions regarding drinking after receiving a concussion, but I've yet to really come across any on the former question.
 
I have about a decade of on and off boxing experience under my belt. Never competed, did a lot of sparring and have never had a serious concussion up to this incident. A little less than two years ago, after drinking a 40oz and smoking some weed, a friend and I decided to do some light sparring in his yard (I've never sparred in this state, call it a lapse in judgement). Our exchanges were very light, more like taps, but by the end of it my head was pounding. Fast forward two weeks, and I have all the symptoms of PCS--memory is shit, can't focus, 24/7 headache, sensitivity to light and sound, playing video games gives me headaches, exercise gives me a headache, conversing for more than 5 minutes hurts my head. I didn't end up going to a doctor for it until months later, another stupid decision, but my ct scan came up clean.

Almost two years later I'm healed 95%. The only residual effect is that my concentration seems slightly off and I get headaches if I play games for too long.

But I still feel that once I am healed 100%, that I may want to get back into boxing and compete. Obviously, I'm worried about this happening again since it's been a long and hellish road to recovery. Does anyone have experience with PCS and then returning to training afterward? I'd like to hear your experience and suggestions.

Alcohol dehydrates the system/brain.

So it probably made the fluid inside your brain decrease and caused the brain to hit against the skull with less protection.


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Go get massages to increase blood flow around the neck area to de-stiffen the neck. Less headaches.

Switch to alkaline based diet: ginger, kangen water, mushrooms, kale, research this more. You should probably start juicing too.

Take cod liver fish oil/blueberries/protein increase.

Take Gotu Kola AND Ginko Leaf. (Immune System/Memory Improvement). Research old school medicine like Ayurvedic and Traditional Chinese Medicine and any other old school/old world medicine. On top of that, research new school medicine like stem cells and any way to heal neural-networks/the tau protein that has formed inside your brain now and how to work around it.

Also research into how neural plasticity can heal you and its exercises.

Switch to soft stretching based exercises to increase blood flow and limberness to the entire body.

Make sure your spine/posture is straight, watch your neck too, make sure it's lifted and not shifted forward.

Stop smoking/drinking.

Music Therapy has also been used for people with brain injuries far worse than yours and stroke victims as well that affect the brain/mind. So start on that.

And do some in depth research on Google yourself to how to prevent further damage and possibly reverse the Concussion. This has happened throughout history pre-dating conventional medical science, so research that too.....

On top of all this, talk to brain injury experts.

Google search Concussion Reversal/Healing/Treatments and doctors/specialists for them.

Take action and don't wait to be a victim. Be detail oriented. Be 110% focused on healing yourself.


If you're serious about your health, use all of the avenues I've suggested to you and more.

Research deep, don't give up, and realize the duality in nature. Don't just focus on fighting/destruction, life's also about healing/building.
 
Alright, so let me get this straight. You've asked a neurosurgeon whether or not being drunk while sparring or fighting can lead to easier concussions? I know there are many medical opinions regarding drinking after receiving a concussion, but I've yet to really come across any on the former question.

Not exactly, I also shouldn't have said asked, it was something he mentioned in a social context. We were talking about a mutual friend of his and my father (who I know well) who had recently, after drinking and smoking heavily, stood up, fainted from a head-rush and hit his head badly. He mentioned that drinking can make impacts to the head more severe.
 
That certainly sounds quite likely. I did get hit more than a few times... and hard, during my decade of sparring. Never been knocked down, never been knocked out. Just got to see the cosmos every now and then.

FML, maybe it's time to seriously consider BJJ.

Or just be a gym warrior. Those are the guys who just trains and spars a lot like you're doing now. You get respect just the same.

BJJ is not that safe in comparison. That's where you get torn ligaments, back problems, ACL & meniscus tears, etc. when you get into the competitive level. In striking, you can go light to medium more often, but in BJJ it's usually 80% and up.

And if your head is sensitive, it's not going to like certain rolling motions and sudden jerks from BJJ.
 
Or just be a gym warrior. Those are the guys who just trains and spars a lot like you're doing now. You get respect just the same.

BJJ is not that safe in comparison. That's where you get torn ligaments, back problems, ACL & meniscus tears, etc. when you get into the competitive level. In striking, you can go light to medium more often, but in BJJ it's usually 80% and up.

And if your head is sensitive, it's not going to like certain rolling motions and sudden jerks from BJJ.

At this point, if I was him, I'd seriously consider just playing table tennis, doing tai chi for health, yoga and meditate a bunch to heal my brain plus other stuff I mentioned last post.


http://www.drdiane.com/about/our-approach/therapies/energy-medicine-treatments/

http://www.revivecenters.com

https://ymaa.com/articles/be-wary-of-concussions

http://www.neurokinetics.com/conc-acupressure/

http://www.drjoanny.com

https://www.medgadget.com/2016/02/neck-collar-helps-prevent-concussions-brain-bubble-wrap.html

https://bioengineering.stanford.edu/news/david-camarillo-there-hope-concussion-prevention

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161122174815.htm

https://bme.duke.edu/about/news/duke-joins-925m-project-understand-concussion-and-improve-recovery

----

We need Star Trek level bio-scanners and nano-medicine damnit!
 
We need Star Trek level bio-scanners and nano-medicine damnit!

Ikr. These fucking scientists need to get their act together! How am I supposed to take punches to the face when these idiots can't even come up with miracle drugs and technology!
 
That certainly sounds quite likely. I did get hit more than a few times... and hard, during my decade of sparring. Never been knocked down, never been knocked out. Just got to see the cosmos every now and then.

Part of me wants to say it was the mixture of weed and alcohol (dehydrated brain, abnormal brain chemistry), and the fact that I had done almost no exercise a year prior to this light sparring (my neck and back muscles were weak and dystrophied from lack of exercise, thus my head took all the force of impact instead of my neck and back). I also did engage in a light sparring session with the same guy two days before, so maybe the almost back-to-back sparring sessions had something to do with it as well.

Another part of me says Occam's Razor--the simplest explanation is usually the right one, in other words, what you've described.

It just pisses me off because I know I have unused potential, and when I was younger I was afraid to commit to actual fighting and stuck to only sparring to potentially save my pride; in my mind an L on my record was worse than having no record at all. Immature and cowardly. In this sense, I've never considered myself a real boxer, and now that I feel courageous enough to fight, it turns out that I now have to be afraid of a completely separate issue; it's no longer about losing my pride if I lose a fight, but getting PCS permanently... or worse. It may be that I really shouldn't ever enter the ring again, in a recreational, but more importantly, competitive capacity, and that saddens me.

FML, maybe it's time to seriously consider BJJ.

You described us all there, buckaroo, thank you for ruining my night.
 
That certainly sounds quite likely. I did get hit more than a few times... and hard, during my decade of sparring. Never been knocked down, never been knocked out. Just got to see the cosmos every now and then.

Part of me wants to say it was the mixture of weed and alcohol (dehydrated brain, abnormal brain chemistry), and the fact that I had done almost no exercise a year prior to this light sparring (my neck and back muscles were weak and dystrophied from lack of exercise, thus my head took all the force of impact instead of my neck and back). I also did engage in a light sparring session with the same guy two days before, so maybe the almost back-to-back sparring sessions had something to do with it as well.

Another part of me says Occam's Razor--the simplest explanation is usually the right one, in other words, what you've described.

It just pisses me off because I know I have unused potential, and when I was younger I was afraid to commit to actual fighting and stuck to only sparring to potentially save my pride; in my mind an L on my record was worse than having no record at all. Immature and cowardly. In this sense, I've never considered myself a real boxer, and now that I feel courageous enough to fight, it turns out that I now have to be afraid of a completely separate issue; it's no longer about losing my pride if I lose a fight, but getting PCS permanently... or worse. It may be that I really shouldn't ever enter the ring again, in a recreational, but more importantly, competitive capacity, and that saddens me.

FML, maybe it's time to seriously consider BJJ.
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Cheer up. Lay off the head punching for a while and train the other aspects if you want. No one can make the decision for you, but ultimately you have to choose what is best for yourself. The best time to make a decision is with a clear head and no regrets or anxiety, so ease up on yourself and give it some time. No one is immune to life.

At least you learned to defend yourself, you took some shots, you trained a sport that 99% aren't built to train.
 
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Cheer up. Lay off the head punching for a while and train the other aspects if you want. No one can make the decision for you, but ultimately you have to choose what is best for yourself. The best time to make a decision is with a clear head and no regrets or anxiety, so ease up on yourself and give it some time. No one is immune to life.

At least you learned to defend yourself, you took some shots, you trained a sport that 99% aren't built to train.

Yep, true. At this point, I'm leaning toward hanging up the gloves for good. I can't see myself risking my brains again on account of my pride. Perhaps I'll join up in a BJJ class. Perhaps I'll start lifting weights instead so I can just look like I know how to defend myself instead of actually knowing how to. Good luck with your symptoms as well.

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Just to update people with more info:


Natural Compounds for Neuroprotection and Recovery
Conventional drugs have shown limited benefits for brain trauma since they don’t address the root cause of what is driving concussion symptoms. Currently, no neuro-protective treatment options exist that improve symptoms after a TBI.[5] Now many researchers are starting to study a wide range of natural compounds and vitamins that have promising broad-spectrum, neuroprotective, and anti-inflammatory activity. Curcumin, green tea, essential fatty acids, resveratrol, and vitamin E are some of the compounds with potential therapeutic benefit in the treatment of TBI.[3] The evidence for these substances is still very preliminary and there is much more research needed to confirm these effects in humans, but they offer potential options in a condition with no known treatment.

CURCUMIN – is an active compound found in the spice turmeric. It has attracted much interest as a potential treatment for many chronic diseases, including Alzheimer’s disease (AD), cancer, and heart disease due to its powerful anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties.[6] While results are still preliminary, curcumin extracts are showing positive benefit in neuro-recovery, cell membrane stabilization, and reduction of oxidative stress in animals.[8,9,19,11] Other potential therapeutic effects include increasing brain growth factors, chelating heavy metals, reducing cholesterol, and protecting mitochondria.[3]

The problem with curcumin is that it doesn’t dissolve well in water, making its absorption through the digestive tract limited. It is important to point out that only free curcumin (not other curcumin molecules) is able to pass the blood brain barrier. Newer, fat soluble formulations, such as a curcumin extract called Longvida, appear to improve delivery into the bloodstream, past the blood brain barrier and into brain tissue.[12,13] Longvida curcumin was developed for neurological disorders by researchers at UCLA. Curcumin stands as one of the most promising neuroprotective and therapeutic agents in TBI and PCS due its excellent safety profile and wide ranging mechanism of action.

(Editor’s note: In addition, other brands of curcumin have been formulated for enhanced bioavailability, including NutriCure by NAKA. Alternatively, Ayurvedic physicians recommend cooking turmeric in oil, and combining it with black pepper, to enhance bioavailability of its constituents.)

GREEN TEA – like curcumin, is a well-known and widely consumed herb with broad-spectrum antioxidant activity. Its neuroprotective properties can be attributed primarily to the power antioxidant molecule called epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG), the amino acid L- theanine, and to a lesser degree caffeine.[14] EGCG has been shown to have antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects in animal models of brain injury.[15,16,17] One unique aspect of green tea is that the L-theanine content may offer protection from excitotoxic injury that occurs immediately after a concussion.[17] There is a clear need for more research, but promising evidence suggests that even regular dietary consumption of green tea may have a neuroprotective effect if a concussion occurs. A number of other plant compounds such as resveratrol (found in red wine) and anthocyanidins (found in berries) have also shown neuroprotective effects.[3] Unlike pharmacological medications, these plant extracts have multiple modes of action and work synergistically with each other. They also support the function of the body’s own antioxidant systems and nerve repair systems.[18] There have been a number of animal trials using plant compounds such as resveratrol, demonstrating an anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective effect in TBI, but like green tea, there have been no human trials to date.[19,20] Since these molecules are found in many colourful fruits and vegetables, it would be a safe recommendation for people with TBI or PCS to incorporate them into their diets.

OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS – have long been considered essential for brain development and function. Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and to a lesser degree Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), is primarily found in nerve membranes; they influence cell signaling and anti-inflammatory pathways.[21] Since the human body cannot efficiently convert plant-based essential fatty acids to EPA and DHA, fish oil supplements are the best source of the active components. (It is important to note that, while consuming fish high in omega 3 fatty acids is desirable, the heavy metals and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) found in most fish is a concern, especially for brain function.)[22] A number of trials in animal models of TBI have found that DHA and omega-3 supplementation improves cognitive function, reduces nerve swelling, stabilizes cellular energy production, and increases nerve repair.[23,24] One of these studies showed that pre-injury dietary supplementation with fish oil also had a neuroprotective effect.[23]

VITAMIN E – is a commonly studied natural compound for brain health since it has a powerful antioxidant effect, specifically in fatty tissue (i.e. nerves). A number of animal studies have found that vitamin E supplementation reduces nerve damage and improves cognitive performance following repetitive, concussive brain injury.[25,26] Interestingly, supplementation before the concussions also had a neuroprotective effect.[26] A good formulation should provide all eight molecules of vitamin E, with the highest proportion being the potent gamma-tocopherol, which is considered the most anti-inflammatory component. In addition, vitamin E works with other antioxidants, such as vitamin C and coenzyme Q10 as part of an antioxidant network. This highlights the need to consume antioxidants together in order to support their proper biological function.

CREATINE, L-CARNITINE, ALA AND MORE – There are a number of other emerging nutrients currently being studied for TBI. Creatine, an amino acid found in muscles, has human evidence supporting its benefit in reducing symptoms after a concussion. Benefits were found for supplementation before and even after the injury, evidence that creatine can be used to prevent and treat neurological deficits after a concussion.[29-31] There are other promising supplements being studied, including acetyl L-carnitine, alpha lipoic acid, B12, ginkgo biloba, and magnesium.[27]

HYPERBARIC OXYGEN THERAPY – Another intervention suggested to have beneficial effects on TBI recovery is hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT), although more research is needed to confirm its benefit.

Treatment Options for Post-Concussion Syndrome
Ninety percent of concussion and mild brain injury symptoms resolve after 7 to 14 days without any treatment, however 10% of people continue to have persistent symptoms (PCS). While there isn’t a defined treatment protocol in the conventional system, we can use the research we do have – combined with clinical experience – to help PCS patients with innovative strategies. In my practice, I use a comprehensive and integrative approach because there are often multiple factors contributing to the persistent symptoms. The following are the key pillars of this strategy.

1) Comprehensive neck assessment – most TBI patients have not been assessed for neck and muscle issues that may be contributing to their symptoms. I work with a group of chiropractors who can identify whether or not the neck also needs to be treated. Muscle release, massage, acupuncture, and natural injection techniques are then used to resolve these issues.
2) Anti-inflammatory diet – I generally ask patients to remove foods that promote inflammation (refined sugars and animal-based saturated fats). At the same time, I recommend increasing good fats (wild fish, flaxseed, coconut oil, etc.) as well as increasing foods rich in antioxidants (berries and veggies). An emerging concept now being explored in the research, that often surprises people, is that reducing the amount of calories in a person’s diet also has a brain protective effect.
3) Intravenous therapies – are a key part of the strategy because it is difficult to deliver nutrients to the brain via the digestive tract. IV therapy bypasses digestion and allows for the delivery of high doses of nutrients directly into the bloodstream. I use a combination of powerful nutrients and antioxidants to restore nerve function. Vitamin C, B-vitamins, and glutathione are central to this therapy.
4) Key Nutrients – are used to reduce inflammation, promote blood flow, and restore mitochondrial function. These supplements (discussed earlier) can be used short term in higher doses to rapidly quench inflammation. Each patient has specific needs, so a unique combination of nutrients is tailored to each individual. It’s essential to target mitochondria to restore the ability of nerve cells to function again.
5) Homeopathic remedies – While this approach is controversial, I find that homeopathy can have a very powerful effect on brain trauma by matching specific symptoms with the appropriate remedy. One of the most well known remedies is called Arnica, which has excellent applications to any type of trauma or injury, even if it has happened in the past. There are many other homeopathics which can be used depending on the key symptoms of each person.
6) Acupuncture – has a powerful effect on relaxing muscles, stimulating blood flow, and promoting healing. In addition to using acupuncture to address tight neck muscles, a special technique called 'scalp and ear acupuncture' can have a potent effect on brain recovery by impacting the nervous system.
 
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