Crime Pope apologizes for ‘evil committed by so many Christians’ in Canada’s residential schools

Do you think the Pope did the right thing by apologizing?

  • I don't know.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    86
Brian Holdsworth:



@6:49 "We also need to ask if this expectations of descendants apologizing and making reparations for the sins of ancestors is a legitimate and a just expectation. If it makes sense that I as a Catholic share in the guilt of Catholics who have come before me and committed crimes and abuses and injustices, then I need to ask where does that end. Where does that cycle of accusation and contrition and reparation end. When is that satisfied? If that does not separate me from that guilt, then likewise that would not separate my children or my grandchildren and so on either because they would all share in that lineage. By that concept, every successive generation would be expected to show remorse for sins of people for whom the only thing they have in common is that shared expression of the common creed (love God and love your neighbor as yourself). That can't possibly lead to healing and reconciliation all it will lead to is an endless cycle of accusation and either contrition or resentment on the part of the accused.

Who among us has ancestors that have committed no sins such that we can start throwing stones around without smashing up our own glass houses?... This perverse notion of justice, if it were applied to everyone, would be unappeasable. We would be caught in a never-ending feedback loop of regret and appeasement for our ancestors.
 
Last edited:
@13:36 "We are seeing the goodwill of those who are willing to forgive and goodwill of those who are willing to offer apologies being exploited by people with political agendas and their own aims on power and, frankly, money.

That is why there needs to be a clear line drawn. One that acknowledges the true measure of the crime that has been done and the true responsibility to do what can be done to correct those crimes...I think Francis has gone way above and beyond what is required of him to heal those wounds even though the office of the Pope had nothing to do with those crimes and it certainly isn't something you can trace back to the universal creed of Catholics in a way that you can incriminate the entire church."
 
Last edited:
I'm sure this manufactured issue will be brought up at some point.

Why Pope Francis may be hesitant to rescind the 1493 Doctrine of Discovery

But any hesitation by the Pope to renounce it may stem from the Vatican's view that the church has already done away with and replaced those edicts, some observers suggest.

"In some sense, from the church's point of view, it doesn't need to be rescinded because it is, in fact, abrogated," said Darren Dias, a theology professor at St. Michael's College in Toronto. "It has no standing."

The doctrine, the Vatican argued, had been abrogated as early as 1494 and that "circumstances have changed so much that to attribute any juridical value to such a document seems completely out of place."

The Doctrine of Discovery had also been abrogated by other papal bulls, encyclicals, statements and decrees, it said.

"The bull Inter Caetera [Discovery Doctrine] is a historic remnant with no juridical, moral or doctrinal value," the statement said.

"The Holy See confirms that Inter Caetera has already been abrogated and considers it without any legal or doctrinal value."

As for an official rescinding of the doctrine, :eek::eek::eek:gioli noted that the church doesn't issue formal documents that declare past edicts are no longer valid.


"In the Catholic Church, there is no formal mechanism for rescinding a past teaching," he said.

Instead, the Catholic Church will focus on "teaching something new that's different from what was taught before."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pope-francis-doctrine-discovery-indigenous-1.6536174
 
Last edited:
Why isn't it possible to make an exception and dig up some of these bodies and do autopsies on them when many questions can be answered by doing so? You could determine that bodies do actually exist and perhaps identify some of them, when these children died, whether they were abused and beaten, were they malnourished or whether they died of diseases and so on. If native people are so sure that many of these children were abused, then why not confirm it instead of keeping the public in the dark instead of providing proof that autopsies could bring?



While there's no question that abuse did happen in some of these schools, is there real proof that it was a very widespread issue? At least 150,000 native children attended these schools so does that mean that tens of thousands were actually abused? Is there any verifiable proof of this or are we only to believe native people telling their stories? No offense but it would be nice to have some form of concrete proof other than eye witness testimony that abuse of native kids at these schools was a regular and widespread issue.



While many children did die at residential schools, with the time period these schools were setup they were often opened long before vaccines and advanced medicine were available to protect against diseases and illnesses. Children and people in general all over Canada were dying of various diseases and illnesses that had no cure at the time. Again autopsies of bodies would answer whether this was the case or not for many residential school students. Why wouldn't you want to confirm what you've always believed unless you're potentially afraid that the results of those autopsies might not completely match your claims?



What if autopsies CAN determine at least that these children weren't mistreated or malnourished or beaten? Would native people accept these results the same if autopsies that DID show that many children were abused and mistreated? Or would they simply reject these scientific facts because it didn't match their claims?

If you're serious about discussing the issue, I'm going to ask you to use your real account.

I feel like I've been here too long to debate with a burner.
 
Just so we're clear are you saying you would take a handful of autopsy reports, that would be limited in what they can tell over the thousands of stories from survivors?

Yup.

That's exactly what they've used their one and only comment with their new account (created yesterday) to say.
 
Trudeau condescendingly tried to make papal visit all about him
The government, like the prime minister, always thinks that more of itself is what Indigenous Canadians need

Pope Francis came on what he called a “pilgrimage of penance.” The prime minister came with pride and pretense. The contrast was evident at the Citadelle of Quebec City

Pope Francis was confined to his wheelchair. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, tall, fit, strong, towered over him. But it was clear who the smaller man was.

The protocol arrangements had assigned the Governor General to speak on behalf of Canada, not the prime minister. After all, it was at her residence. But Trudeau demanded to have his say. And so he did.


“Survivors and their descendants need to be at the centre of everything we do together going forward,” Trudeau said. But in the present, the prime minister wanted to talk about himself, with a half dozen references to his own presence in various places. He even mentioned where he was during the papal apology at Maskwacis, because, after all, it was important that everyone know where he was.


It was a vainglorious performance. The next day at Ste. Anne to Beaupre, Trudeau glad-handed his way into the “Mass of Reconciliation,” reaching into the crowd as if he was campaigning at yet another summer photo-op. While the pope spoke repeatedly about shame, the prime minister was simply shameless.


Narcissism is hardly news, but during the papal visit the prime minister’s deportment reflected an odd disposition from the federal government. The government seemed to adopt the position of moral arbiter, arrogating to itself the role of determining whether Catholic contrition was sufficient.

Trudeau lectured the pope on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC), even though the federal government’s record has been spotty at best.
 
Remember this?



The guy is so out of touch it's amazing. Just a hollow shell.
 
Were they not unmarked graves in a cemetery? I didn't think we were denying they existed.

They likely are, but the ground penetrating radar the used can only show if there are anomalies or not. The resolution isn't high enough to identify bodies or graves or anything, which is why excavations are needed to verify. So far, no excavations have happened so it's still not confirmed, even if it is likely.
 
Liberation theology.

Is Pope Francis a Liberation Theologian?

Francis was not part of the rising tide of liberation theology. As someone born in 1936 who was part of a religious order that became known for social justice, this was not for lack of opportunity. His social conscience is informed more by the “Theology of the People,” a movement that paralleled liberation theology and prioritized the poor, but one that is unique to Argentina, drawing less on sociological analysis and Marxist literature.

In his book Francis of Rome & Francis of Assisi, Boff says that speculating about Pope Francis’s relationship to liberation theology is irrelevant. “The important thing is not to be for liberation theology but for the liberation of the oppressed, the poor, and the victims of injustice, and that [Pope Francis] is without question,” Boff writes.

Pope Francis may not be a liberation theologian. But he is clearly trying to be a liberating theologian, developing a theology of popular movements and social change capable of confronting systems he is willing to name, like neoliberalism, neocolonialism, and capitalist globalization. As the poor are plunged even further into poverty during the COVID-19 pandemic while billionaires clumsily try to go to space, may we hear the words of the first pope from Latin America:

“This system, with its relentless logic of profit, is escaping all human control. It is time to slow the locomotive down, an out-of-control locomotive hurtling towards the abyss. There is still time.”
https://sojo.net/articles/pope-francis-liberation-theologian
 
What a POS

pope2-Copy.jpg


Sorry if bumping this thread, didn't know where to put it.
 
Back
Top