Elections (Poll) GOP Now Has Largest Advantage On Security/Prosperity since 2015

[andnowweknow]

He didn't wear a flag pin either!

 

[bobgeese]

What are you suggesting people are "coping" about?

The shitty job Biden is doing that resulted in the polls you're commenting on.

 

[andnowweknow]

The shitty job Biden is doing that resulted in the polls you're commenting on.

You need to ditch this make believe that people love Joe Biden. Most of the "he's doing bad" is people coping about the other dude that got the boot.

 

[lifelessheap]

Democrats destabilizing the border, encouraging breaking our laws while allowing riots, murder and mayhem. While letting the homeless rob all businesses and letting out criminals.


Gee ... I wonder why?

 

[HereticBD]

Sorry for the unreable post above - the format keeps putting quotes at the end of my last response to you for some reason. Even if I delete them it makes no difference.

In short, I'll just say that I don't share your optimism about a third party changing the landscape all that much. Especially when the right people at the right time, who could actually do it and make a splash, refuse to do so.

At least in an immediate sense. A third party may arise sometime in the future, but it would take longer than our lifespans for them to even begin to find their footing.

 

[bobgeese]

You need to ditch this make believe that people love Joe Biden. Most of the "he's doing bad" is people coping about the other dude that got the boot.

Oh yeah, I remember how happy Democrats were when he bombed a minivan full of kids, then bragged about it.


Cope harder.

 

[andnowweknow]

Oh yeah, I remember how happy Democrats were when he bombed a minivan full of kids, then bragged about it.


Cope harder.

Lol. You're so mad Trump lost. Deep breaths Bob.

 

[bobgeese]

Lol. You're so mad Trump lost. Deep breaths Bob.

I'm really not. He's no longer capable of delivering a message, and Biden is on track to accomplish nothing. 4 years will pass, there will be a generation of disillusioned young left, and the GOP or better yet a 3rd party will beat Kamala.

I'm a patient man grasshopper.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

turns out tanking the economy to own the chuds wasn't such a great idea.

 

[andnowweknow]

I'm really not. He's no longer capable of delivering a message, and Biden is on track to accomplish nothing. 4 years will pass, there will be a generation of disillusioned young left, and the GOP or better yet a 3rd party will beat Kamala.

I'm a patient man grasshopper.

Biden isn't even a year in and is about to pass a large infrastructure plan before years end...that alone will be more than Trump accomplished in 4 years.

And hit me up when Trump isn't on track to be the Republican nominee, because until then whoever the democrats run is the winner by default.

 

[bobgeese]

infrastructure plan

Yeah, that's totally why young progressives voted for him...

 

[andnowweknow]

Yeah, that's totally why young progressives voted for him...

What does that have to do with anything?

He won because Republicans and independents wanted Trump out, not because he mobilized young progressives lol.. What planet are you on Bob?

 

[heloder]

What are you suggesting people are "coping" about?

The devastating election victory.

 

[bobgeese]

What does that have to do with anything?

Because he'll accomplish nothing that is of consequence. Good, pass infrastructure. Most everything else will be erased with the stroke of a pen.

 

[SBJJ]

Trump lost

While I'm not a fan of derailing....I admit, this made me laugh

 

[RemyR]

Really surprised to see CNN saying this.

TBH right now I don’t trust either party in those issues btw.

 

[panamaican]

I'm not trying to win anything, I'm simply asking for more options.

Stop asking for options and start creating them.

Yes, they would, because random 3rd (or 4th or 5th or 6th) is running for the highest office in the country. Most people who vote for the president have no idea who their local officials are. It's foolish, but it's how it works. Of course most people are going to be enamored by presidential candidates rather than their local mayor.

No one will know about random 3rd party candidate because it costs money to get attention, unless you have large amount of local support.

People want the quick fix. They don't want to build a 3rd party from the ground up, creating local support for issues across multiple states. They just want people to accept some random, no name dude because of what? Even the 2 major parties know that they can't trot out no names and win elections.

This is what I'm talking about when I say it won't matter because no one wants to do the work. Here, you will not even acknowledge that work has to be done to build a viable 3rd party.

I agree that local politics are important to your local community. Many people don't care about their local communities as long as the streets are paved, the schools are open, and their taxes aren't outrageous. Issues like climate change, globalization, fracking, etc are national level politics and they are the ones that have the broadest impact on the entire world. I live in a town of 2,000 people - how much local politics would you like me to digest?

IMO, 3rd (and further parties) do not have the financial or political backing to win anything with the way the system is set up. The system is designed to take even people like Bernie Sanders and make them run as a Democrat or a Republican. Hell, Trump had to run as a Republican and he's the furthest thing from a conservative.

Where do you think national level politicians come from? They come from local politics.

They start out at party meetings, then they run for small elections, they build a donor list and show that they have local support. After they show some small success then, and only then, does the national party reach down and start giving them the national push.

If you will not build up the type of local politicians that you can support, you will not have any politicians that you like at the national level.

That's true whether it's the 2 major parties or a 3rd party.

I understand what you're saying on a local level. I'm more focused on having multiple parties in national elections, where donor money, lobbying organizations, and business interest pick the two people we get to vote for. That is one more person than a dictatorship. That is way too few choices.

See my above comment. No one just appears on the national stage.

Donor money and lobbying organizations and business interests don't pick the people. The party gives them the people based on their success at the local level.

Almost never. I was active duty for most of my post-college life and now I live in a town of 2,000 people. Local politics are pretty much nonexistent here. I also don't think I need to be invested in local issues to be upset about having no real voice in national issues.

If you want to talk national elections, I have some experience with how sleazy that world is. I briefly worked for the NFIB after college, and holy shit, the number of Republicans in congress that are forced to vote a certain way on every issue or lose NFIB backing money...it's really disheartening.

I won't repeat what I said above. I'll simply add to it.

It is a fantasy world if anyone thinks that a 3rd party candidate doesn't have the same economic pressures and they come from the same place.

But I'll step past some of this and get to the deep meat -- why do you think that none of the 60+ current 3rd parties in the U.S. have succeeded? With 60+ 3rd parties, we don't lack for nuance.

 

[Cid]

But I'll step past some of this and get to the deep meat -- why do you think that none of the 60+ current 3rd parties in the U.S. have succeeded? With 60+ 3rd parties, we don't lack for nuance.

Because you have a shitty voting system (first past the post) that punishes anyone that tries to vote 3rd party.

Under first past the post voting for any party other than D or R is the equivalent of throwing your vote in the trash.



I exclusively vote third party, but that's because I live in a country that at least attempts to give the voters a choice in their representation.

I couldn't do that in America because your system will punish me by taking away my ability to have a say in whether a democrat or republican is voted in.

That's a fucking stupid question for someone who isn't a moron.

 

[panamaican]

Because you have a shitty voting system (first past the post) that punishes anyone that tries to vote 3rd party.

Under first past the post voting for any party other than D or R is the equivalent of throwing your vote in the trash.



I exclusively vote third party, but that's because I live in a country that at least attempts to give the voters a choice in their representation.

I couldn't do that in America because your system will punish me by taking away my ability to have a say in whether a democrat or republican is voted in.

That's a fucking stupid question for someone who isn't a moron.

So, people are not interested in voting their principles, they just want to vote for a winner.

People should just be honest about that and save us this rigamarole about 3rd parties. They should say "I know that I don't agree with either of those 2 candidates but I'd rather claim to have supported the winner rather than the person who I do agree with." Followed by "Sure, if my 3rd party candidate had a good showing but still lost, it might strengthen our ability to win other elections in future. But I don't care about the future of my 3rd party, I care about being able to claim I elected the 'winner'."

That would save us a lot of work and typing.

Jokes aside - think about how it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

No one votes for their 3rd party candidate because they don't think the candidate can win. Without votes the 3rd party candidate definitely doesn't win. All the people who didn't vote for that candidate use the loss to justify not voting for the candidate at the next election either. Naturally, he loses again. Then everyone whines about why there are no 3rd party candidates, completely oblivious to the fact that their lack of support for the 3rd party candidate unless he's guaranteed to win effectively guarantees that he will always lose.

 

[Cid]

So, people are not interested in voting their principles, they just want to vote for a winner.

People should just be honest about that and save us this rigamarole about 3rd parties. They should say "I know that I don't agree with either of those 2 candidates but I'd rather claim to have supported the winner rather than the person who I do agree with." Followed by "Sure, if my 3rd party candidate had a good showing but still lost, it might strengthen our ability to win other elections in future. But I don't care about the future of my 3rd party, I care about being able to claim I elected the 'winner'."

That would save us a lot of work and typing.

Jokes aside - think about how it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

No one votes for their 3rd party candidate because they don't think the candidate can win. Without votes the 3rd party candidate definitely doesn't win. All the people who didn't vote for that candidate use the loss to justify not voting for the candidate at the next election either. Naturally, he loses again. Then everyone whines about why there are no 3rd party candidates, completely oblivious to the fact that their lack of support for the 3rd party candidate unless he's guaranteed to win effectively guarantees that he will always lose.

Not at all. I think the only part you're right about is that it's a self fulfilling prophecy, only you're wrong about the how.

People aren't going to vote third party when they know the result of voting third party is them not having a say in who ultimately represents them.

The first past the post system actively punishes anybody who votes third party by not allowing them to choose their preference between the two major parties.


Do you understand how your voting system works?
Do you not understand that other countries have different (superior) voting systems?


Let's make up a scenario.

The year is 2000 and there is an election between a guy called Bush and another called Gore

Purely hypothetical example.

Lets say I prefer Gore to be the president over Bush.
But what I really want is a third party candidate, let's just make up a name for him/her. I'll call this imaginary person Ralph Nader.

Now with the first past the post voting system I understand that if I vote for this imaginary Ralph Nader fellow and he doesn't get in what in essence what I have done is actually just subtracted my vote from Gore.

Instead of voting between the two major candidates i vote for the person I think would best represent me with this Ralph Nader fellow.

Only he doesn't get in. Maybe he doesn't have enough support, maybe because no one with a brain is willing to vote third party because they know that all they're doing is relinquishing their say between the two candidates from the major party.

Let's just say it was real close in my area. So close that they have to do a recount.

Let's say this hypothetical Bush fellow wins in part because me and other people like me voted for our preferred candidate Ralph and not for the Gore fellow.

Now let's say this hypothetical bush fellow hypothetically invades two countries resulting trillions of dollars spent on the MIC and millions of people dead. Great, i'm now complicit with a mass murdering piece of shit just because I decided to be principled and vote third party.




Now lets try it again with a different voting system. A system where I number people according to my preference for them to be leader.
1 Nader
2 Gore
3 Bush
4 person x
5 person y
6 person z


If my vote for 1 doesn't result in that person winning the seat then my vote is shifted to who i voted in at number 2, aka my second preference.

I'm unlucky that my first preference doesn't win but my vote goes to the second person. The Gore fellow, who wins because my vote WASN'T thrown in the garbage after voting for an unsuccessful candidate.


Which system do you think hamstrings third party candidates?
Which system do you think results in more people voting third party?
Which system do you think...








Results in a self fulfilling prophecy?