Poll: Better LW career Joachim Hansen or Eddie Alvarez?

[ironfist05]

Joachim "Hellboy" Hansen
record: 24-11-1 (0)
LW record: 20-8-1 (0)

notable titles held: Dream LW champion, Shooto LW champion

Notable wins at LW: Rumino Sato, Takanori Gomi, Gesias Calvacante, Caol Uno, Yves Edwards, Luiz Azeredo, Shinya Aoki

notable LW losses: Vitor Ribeiro, Hayato Sakurai, Tatsuya Kawajiri (DQ), Shinya Aoki (X2), Eddie Alvarez

Eddie Alvarez

record: 24-3-0 (0)
LW record: 12-2-0 (0)

notable titles held: Bellator LW champion

notable wins at LW: Pat Curran, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Shinya Aoki, Joachim Hansen

notable LW losses: Shinya Aoki, Michael Chandler

mods please add a poll

 

[ironfist05]

I'll start off: I think Hansen has had the better LW career

 

[PRIDExxFC]

Overall Hansen, just because he's had more accomplishments. Give Eddie some time once he starts to fight again though. It wouldn't surprise me if he surpasses him.

 

[PurpleDrank]

Alvarez

 

[Jocke]

Without thinking about it too much, maybe Alvarez? I don't know, I feel like they both spent most of their career in "inferior" organizations but Alvarez had overall more success?

Love Hansen though, great fighter.

 

[Taric]

I don't know, I feel like they both spent most of their career in "inferior" organizations but Alvarez had overall more success?

Dream had a much more proven LW roster than the UFC at the time. In 2008 only 2 top 10 LWs were in the UFC. BJ at #1 and Sherk at #10. It wasn't until 2011 that the UFC LW division clearly pulled ahead of the multiple org LW jumble with the WEC additions.

As to the original question, I give it to Eddie simply because Hellboy has so many losses. Joachim has fought a lot of bad dudes. Sadly he's lost to a lot of them. His walkaway highlight reel is second-to-none though.

 

[HuntersCreed]

Where's the poll?

 

[ironfist05]

Without thinking about it too much, maybe Alvarez? I don't know, I feel like they both spent most of their career in "inferior" organizations but Alvarez had overall more success?

Love Hansen though, great fighter.

I dunno, I feel like Hansen's resume just has a lot more elite wins on it. Alvarez is great (and he did beat Hansen, which is a plus), but his resume is kinda limited TBH. Plus I think Hansen was ranked longer.

With that said, Hansen also has more losses on his resume, so you have to take that into account.

Where's the poll?

I don't know how to make one, I'm hoping one of the mods makes one

 

[BORCAT]

Ventured in to vote, then saw no poll.

 

[Westbrick]

Hansen

 

[Jocke]

Dream had a much more proven LW roster than the UFC at the time. It wasn't until 2011 that the UFC LW division clearly pulled ahead with the WEC additions.

Eh, I don't really know if I agree with this. While I think the LW was definately spread out after PRIDE crashed, I still think the LW guys in the UFC was better (but I guess not by a huge amount). If we make this US vs Japan (not in terms of nationality but organization) then I think the gap widens even more.

 

[Jocke]

I dunno, I feel like Hansen's resume just has a lot more elite wins on it. Alvarez is great (and he did beat Hansen, which is a plus), but his resume is kinda limited TBH. Plus I think Hansen was ranked longer.

With that said, Hansen also has more losses on his resume, so you have to take that into account.

Yeah, I mean Alvarez is obviously younger so he's got less active career time, I see your point. I still think, atleast in my mind, what hurts Hansen the most is the Aoki loses, naturally he won once but he still lost the other too, this was at a time when Aoki was atleast considered top 3 in the world. I guess the fact that Alvarez beat him is also kinda damning for me.

But to be fair, I definately think the age is a thing too, who knows how Alvarez will finish out his career.

EDIT: Lol, double post, I was hoping someone would have replied before I replied so I wouldnt get doubled. Oh well.

 

[ironfist05]

Eh, I don't really know if I agree with this. While I think the LW was definately spread out after PRIDE crashed, I still think the LW guys in the UFC was better (but I guess not by a huge amount). If we make this US vs Japan (not in terms of nationality but organization) then I think the gap widens even more.

you can argue with revisionist history, but at the time Dream held most of the worlds top ranked LWs: JZ Calvan, Vitor Shaolin, Hansen, Kawajiri, Aoki, Ishida, Kotetsu Boku, Caol Uno, Alvarez etc... Melendez also signed with them but never ended up fighting for them

BJ was ranked above all of them, but other than that most of the US lightweights were ranked below the Dream LWs.

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

Damn good question....

 

[Jocke]

you can argue with revisionist history, but at the time Dream held most of the worlds top ranked LWs: JZ Calvan, Vitor Shaolin, Hansen, Kawajiri, Aoki, Ishida, Kotetsu Boku, Caol Uno, Alvarez etc... Melendez also signed with them but never ended up fighting for them

BJ was ranked above all of them, but other than that most of the US lightweights were ranked below the Dream LWs.

Yeah but thats also about rankings, rankings with fighters who never even sniffed eachother. It's alot easier to make rankings for guys under the same roof, it's alot harder to make good ones when they're all spread out.

I'll just say I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I guess I'm too lazy to look up the actual history right now so I'm just going of the top of my head (since I don't remember every detail about shit that long ago).

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

Joachim Hansen's Record vs Ranked Opponents:
(and all losses and draws)


WIN - Shinya Aoki - Jul/21/2008 -- Dream 5 - Lightweight Grand Prix 2008 Final
11 P4P - 2008 - Jul 11 - Yahoo Sports MMA P4P
16 P4P - 2008 - Jun 19 - 411mania MMA P4P
3 LW - 2008 - Jul 21 - WAMMA Rankings
3 LW - 2008 - Jul 9 - Sherdog
3 LW - 2008 - Jul 8 - MMA Weekly
2 LW - 2008 - Jul 6 - Fight Matrix-Published
3 LW - 2008 - Jul 6 - Bloody Elbow-Meta Rankings

WIN - Luiz Azeredo - Apr/2/2006 -- Pride - Bushido 10
9 LW - 2006 - Mar 31 - Associated Fight Press
9 LW - 2006 - Mar 21 - MMA News
9 LW - 2006 - Feb 24 (27) - MMA Fighting
12 LW - 2006 - Jan 8 - MMA Collective Rankings

WIN - Yves Edwards - Sep/25/2005 -- Pride - Bushido 9
3 LW - 2005 - SEP (12) - Bloody Knux
5 LW - 2005 - Aug 30 - Associated Fight Press
2 LW - 2005 - Aug 12 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
4 LW - 2005 - JUN - Full Contact Fighter
3 LW - 2005 - May 4 - ADCC MMA Rankings

WIN - Caol Uno - Mar/26/2005 -- K-1 - Hero's 1
10 LW - 2005 - Mar 8 - MMA Fighting
10 LW - 2005 - Feb 28 - MMA Collective
7 LW - 2005 - Feb 28 - Associated Fight Press

WIN - Takanori Gomi - Aug/10/2003 -- Shooto - 8/10 in Yokohama Cultural Gymnasium
1 LW - 2003 - Aug 4 - MMA News
2 LW - 2003 - Aug 1 - MMA Collective-Ufight
1 LW - 2003 - JUN - Associated Fight Press
1 LW - 2003 - JUN - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
3 LW - 2003 - MAY - Full Contact Fighter

WIN - Rumina Sato - Mar/18/2003 -- Shooto - 3/18 in Korakuen Hall
10 LW - 2003 - FEB - Associated Fight Press
14 LW - 2003 - Jan 31 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
9' LW - 2002 - Dec 15 - MMA Collective Rankings


DRAW - Rafles la Rose - Aug/31/2002 -- CW 3 - Hells Kitchen


LOSS - Tatsuya Kawajiri - Sep/24/2011 -- Dream - Dream 17
11-15 LW - 2011 - Sep 13 - Sherdog
10 LW - 2011 - Sep 4 - Fight Matrix-Published
12 LW - 2011 - Aug 26 - Bloody Elbow-USAToday

LOSS - Hiroyuki Takaya - May/29/2010 -- Dream - Dream 14
24 FW - 2010 - May 27 - Bloody Elbow-USAToday

LOSS - Bibiano Fernandes - Mar/22/2010 -- Dream - Dream 13
4 FW - 2010 - Mar 10 - Sherdog
5 FW - 2010 - Mar 9(12) - Independent World MMA Rankings
9 FW - 2010 - Mar 9 - MMA Weekly
6 FW - 2010 - Mar 7 - Fight Matrix-Published
5 FW - 2010 - Feb 25 - Bloody Elbow-USAToday

LOSS - Shinya Aoki - Oct/6/2009 -- Dream 11 - Featherweight Grand Prix 2009 Final
16' P4P - 2009 - Sep 24 - Yahoo Sports MMA P4P
20 P4P - 2009 - Sep 15 - 411mania MMA P4P
2 LW - 2009 - Sep 29 - Josh Gross-Sports Illustrated
2 LW - 2009 - Sep 27 - Sherdog
2 LW - 2009 - Sep 22(24) - Independent World MMA Rankings
2 LW - 2009 - Sep 21 - MMA Weekly
2 LW - 2009 - Oct 2 - Bloody Elbow-USAToday

LOSS - Eddie Alvarez - May/11/2008 -- Dream 3 - Lightweight Grand Prix 2008 Quarterfinals

LOSS - Eiji Mitsuoka - Nov/8/2007 -- Shooto - Back To Our Roots 6

LOSS - Shinya Aoki - Dec/31/2006 -- Pride FC - Shockwave 2006
9 WW - 2006 - NOV - Associated Fight Press
12 LW - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting

LOSS - Tatsuya Kawajiri - Feb/17/2006 -- Shooto - The Victory of the Truth
6 LW - 2006 - Feb 14 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
5 LW - 2006 - JAN - Associated Fight Press
2 LW - 2006 - JAN (8) - Bloody Knux
2 LW - 2006 - Jan 8 - MMA Collective Rankings
2 LW - 2005 - Oct 7 - MMA Fighting

LOSS - Hayato Sakurai - Sep/25/2005 -- Pride - Bushido 9
10 WW - 2005 - SEP (12) - Bloody Knux
2 LW - 2005 - JUN - Full Contact Fighter

LOSS - Vitor Ribeiro - Dec/14/2003 -- Shooto - Year End Show 2003
9 LW - 2003 - DEC - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
9 LW - 2003 - Oct 31 - MMA Media Top 10
5 LW - 2003 - Sep 28 - MMA Collective-Ufight
7 LW - 2003 - JUN - Associated Fight Press

LOSS - Jani Lax - Dec/2/2000 -- FF 4 - FinnFight 4

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

Eddie Alvarez' Record vs Ranked Opponents:
(and all losses and draws)


WIN - Shinya Aoki - Apr/20/2012 -- BFC - Bellator Fighting Championships 66
7 LW - 2012 - Apr 18 - MMA Weekly
6 LW - 2012 - Apr 3 - MMA Bay (U.K.)
7 LW - 2012 - Apr 1 - Fight Matrix-Published
5 LW - 2012 - Mar 29 - Bloody Elbow-USAToday
5 LW - 2012 - Mar 7 - Sherdog

WIN - Tatsuya Kawajiri - Jul/21/2008 -- Dream 5 - Lightweight Grand Prix 2008 Final
7 LW - 2008 - Jul 9 - Sherdog
4 LW - 2008 - Jul 8 - MMA Weekly
7 LW - 2008 - Jul 6 - Fight Matrix-Published
5 LW - 2008 - Jun 30 - MMA Fighting
6 LW - 2008 - Jul 6 - Bloody Elbow-Meta Rankings

WIN - Joachim Hansen - May/11/2008 -- Dream 3 - Lightweight Grand Prix 2008 Quarterfinals
10 LW - 2008 - May 7 - MMA Weekly
11 LW - 2008 - May 3 - Fight Matrix-Published
14 LW - 2008 - Apr 2 - Bloody Elbow-Meta Rankings


LOSS - Michael Chandler - Nov/19/2011 -- BFC - Bellator Fighting Championships 58

LOSS - Shinya Aoki - Dec/31/2008 -- K-1 - Dynamite!! Power of Courage 2008
16 P4P - 2008 - Dec 31 - Yahoo Sports MMA P4P
3 LW - 2008 - Dec 30 - MMA Weekly
4 LW - 2008 - Dec 30 - Sherdog
3 LW - 2008 - Dec 17 - WAMMA Rankings
4 LW - 2008 - Dec 9 - MMA Fighting
3 LW - 2008 - Dec 2 - Bloody Elbow-Meta Rankings

LOSS - Nick Thompson - Apr/14/2007 -- Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations

 

[Ecker707]

I like hellboy. when i was hardcore getting in to mma i loved all the guys who fought on HDnet. Loved watching dream. so hellboy lol

 

[Shael]

I think Alvarez, that said Hellboy is pretty damn under-appreciated.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I've barely seen Hellboy fight and I am an Alvarez fan but just based off the fact that he has more ranked wins I have to say Hellboy. Kind of a lame response but there it is.