Crime Police Officer Arrives on Scene, Shoots and Kills Armed Security Guard

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna936296

I haven't seen this tidbit reported yet

According to witness statements, the officer gave the armed man multiple verbal commands to drop the gun and get on the ground before ultimately discharging his weapon and striking him.

This changes a lot for me. Witnesses reporting officer told him multiple times to drop the gun, cop didn't just show up firing. If body cam footage confirms this, it's a definite no convict from me

NYTimes reported that his clothes were marked "security," so this contradicts that report. They can't both be true.

This also contradicts the sentiment, if not the exact language, of the victims interviewed right after the incident, who seemed to be fully of the opinion that the officers fired for no reason.

I'll wait on body cam footage too, but I've seen too many incidents when the events are told days later in a way that happens to work out 100% perfectly for police. It's as if officers don't make mistakes and every shooting was the victim being insane and ignoring commands from officers with their guns drawn.
 
NYTimes reported that his clothes were marked "security," so this contradicts that report. They can't both be true.

This also contradicts the sentiment, if not the exact language, of the victims interviewed right after the incident, who seemed to be fully of the opinion that the officers fired for no reason.

I'll wait on body cam footage too, but I've seen too many incidents when the events are told days later in a way that happens to work out 100% perfectly for police. It's as if officers don't make mistakes and every shooting was the victim being insane and ignoring commands from officers with their guns drawn.

I hear you on waiting for bodycam footage as witnesses have hazy memories and conflicting reports. I'm just not ready to crucify the cop and assume guilt on this one anymore
 
Surprise, cops being the dangerous trigger happy ones killing innocent people.
 
I hear you on waiting for bodycam footage as witnesses have hazy memories and conflicting reports. I'm just not ready to crucify the cop and assume guilt on this one anymore


I'll bet it was " accidently off" or the footage is "lost".
 
The cop became the domestic terrorist in this particular case, and who can save us from him? another cop?
 
Sadly, I did not even have to really check to see if the security guard was black.

Shootings suck to respond to. You don’t know who the victim or the bad guys are, but you still have to assess the situation and take a moment and pause unless someone is pointing a gun at you or actively shooting someone. Being a uniformed security guard would take a lot of the confusion out of the scenario.

I have told this story before, but long story short, we responded to a shooting. As we round the corner and start to approach the downed person, someone fires six shots at us. We take cover, give a description, and begin to assess the victim. The crowd is very hostile toward us for allowing out of town drug dealers in their drug dealing bar. But one of the guys who shot the man, got left behind by his buddies when they fled in a car. The crowd turned on this guy and about forty people were going after this guy. The LT on duty ordered another unit to release the guy that shot at us because the situation was so bad. We were getting hit and out guns were getting grabbed in a giant melee. Another officer had his gun taken and I turned around to see a black male holding the gun. I did not shoot, but calmly ordered him to put the gun down. He actually picked the gun up when he saw it on the ground and was truth return the gun to the officer, but he was waiting until we had everything under control. This was confirmed by no partisan witnesses. The second closest i came to shooting someone. The first was a man with a brick that kept drawing back to throw it at us in close quarters.
 
...so did the cops release the body cam footage showing that Roberson didn't follow orders and that the shooter had good reason to "fear for his life" yet?

FYI Another armed Good Samaritan got shot by cops while trying to stop a mall shooting Alabama on Thanksgiving.

Local media spent an entire day identifying him as the shooter before the cops admitted that they fucked up and that the real perp escaped from the scene after they shot the good guy with a gun.

 
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I agree the blame should be placed on incredibly low hiring standards and poor training. It should be best qualified candidates get the job. How that is determined should rely on your test scores, education, and your life experience. I honestly believe 21 is way too young to get on this job, it requires a great deal of knowledge on deescalation, and having the ability to physically control someone without hurting them, and making correct decisions under stress. That isn’t easy for a majority of the population so I have no clue why the standards are so lax.
who wants to be a cop?
 
...so did the cops release the body cam footage showing that Roberson didn't follow orders and that the shooter had good reason to "fear for his life" yet?

FYI Another armed Good Samaritan got shot by cops while trying to stop a mall shooting Alabama on Thanksgiving.

Local media spent an entire day identifying him as the shooter before the cops admitted that they fucked up and that the real perp escaped from the scene after they shot the good guy with a gun.


This one hasn't been clarified. They said he did not fire the shots but was involved. Possibly with the shooter. Other pics show him posing with guns prior to the shooting.

No indication he was just a good samaritan. And no indication yet that he was a bad guy. Also the Army pic is kind of a lie too, various outlets reporting he was a washout from AIT.

ALL that said, you need to ID your target before you fire. You also need to be sure there is a threat before you fire.

Think of being a security guard, you just had a violent confrontation with a gunman, were close to shots fired or fired them yourself and are amped up holding down a gunman. Now officers arrive and start giving that guy commands. Big chance he doesn't hear them or has auditory exclusion and is not even registering them.

Guy probably has the basic training required to be a security guard and most training for something like what had just occurred. Not surprising he could not or did not follow commands.

TLDR:
Cops need to ID their target
The target needs to be a threat
People in a violent confrontation may not always be able to immediately recognize and follow commands.
 
He had somebody on the ground with his knee in back, with his gun in his back like, 'Don’t move,'" witness Adam Harris said.

Soon after, witnesses said, an officer responding to the scene fired at Roberson — killing him.

"Everybody was screaming out, 'He was a security guard,'"


Not usually what you'll see approaching a criminal, or hear. Curious as to what the defense will be or if anything additional will pop up in the future.
Horrible...
 
TLDR:
Cops need to ID their target
The target needs to be a threat
People in a violent confrontation may not always be able to immediately recognize and follow commands.

Those are the reasons I am not for arming teachers and every civilian in the entire country in public on the off chance an 'active shooter' event occurs. Some of the cunts on my LTC 'course' looked like they struggled to figure out how to use a knife and fork yet were given a LTC.

Not that I am against the 2nd Amendment- but i am against the thought that people know how to handle themselves in a situation and also how hard it can be for cops to ID the actual threat in real time.
 
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna936296

I haven't seen this tidbit reported yet

According to witness statements, the officer gave the armed man multiple verbal commands to drop the gun and get on the ground before ultimately discharging his weapon and striking him.

This changes a lot for me. Witnesses reporting officer told him multiple times to drop the gun, cop didn't just show up firing. If body cam footage confirms this, it's a definite no convict from me
Uh, you still can’t shoot someone for not responding to a command.
 
Uh, you still can’t shoot someone for not responding to a command.

For having a gun pointed at another person and not following a command to drop the gun?

I need body cam footage to make an actual judgment on this instance, but that's an asanine view
 
For having a gun pointed at another person and not following a command to drop the gun?

I need body cam footage to make an actual judgment on this instance, but that's an asanine view
You still can’t shoot someone simply for not following a command. Believe what you will.
 
You still can’t shoot someone simply for not following a command. Believe what you will.

When the command is "Don't kill that person" (or giving the appearance that's exactly what you're about to do), then yes lethal force to save a life is justified

That's in general. I still don't have enough information personally to decide if that was what it was here in this case
 
https://wgntv.com/2018/11/11/multip...ing-police-say/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Cliffs:
- Scuffle at a bar. Security breaks it up and tosses people out.
- Scuffler comes back with gun and starts shooting. Security fires back, wounds and apprehends the suspect.
- Officer arrives to find security guard with gun drawn on scuffler. Officer shoots security.

Where does this situation sit in the gun debate? Is this avoidable with better training and legislation or is this the unavoidable cost of freedom? That security guard was a hero and saved lives, only to be killed because...I dunno, because he had a gun, I guess. It's as if the 2nd amendment doesn't really apply to all people equally.
As a guy who used to do armed security, this situation never really crossed my mind. Was the guard in a visible uniform at the time? If so, the cop should go to jail for murder.

How ever, it is a scary thought and you really do bring up a great point about carrying a gun. Concealed carry people do occasionally get sucked into a violent situation and deal with it, how then do arriving cops then sort it out with out killing more people? How do they on the fly figure out who is good guy and who is bad guys? It is even more complicated in the wake of Columbine, with officers now prone to run in and shoot first and think later. (They were heavily criticized in the wake of Columbine for not being more aggressive and waiting)

I think more training for sure. Taxes need to be raised and the mostly abysmal tactical training cops get should be greatly expanded. As well their should be some mandatory training for armed Guards. Maybe train them to drop all weapons and assume the felony position when cops arrive? Clearly something needs to be changed.
 
Seeing a gun should not be enough reason in most cases to justify an officer shooting. This case is tough though, because the guard had the weapon trained on a person, so I assume the officer felt the need to act swiftly to save lives. Seems like identifying good guys and bad guys before shooting is key for someone showing up a few minutes after most of the action occurred.
Also was the guard in UNIFORM or not? When I was an Armed Guard, we had a uniform that from a distance was clear to anyone I was a rent a pig with a gun.
 
Don't go to bars be in bed by 9 and avoid tons of problems. STDs, second hand smoke, liver disease and getting shot up.
 
This case SHOULD hinge on what information the officer had from Dispatch at the time of arrival imo.

If the reports were 'shots fired... reports of suspect detained' then 'bad cop'. If reports were 'shots fired... armed security have engaged suspect', then again bad cop as they need to sort things out first. If reports were 'shots fired...' with nothing much more than I think the cop gets a lot of leeway.

I also think that if you are arming your security or allowing them to have fire arms they should also be forced to wear something like this over their clothes.

71PfXWrX8%2BL._SX466_.jpg


Police deserve to know who is staff armed and who is not as it can be very dangerous for a cop in an active fire zone to be trying to figure that out.
When I was an Armed Guard, we had a visible Uniform, So I agree that a real Uniform should be mandatory, not just a few bright pin strips like your picture.
 
This is why more players need to kneel for the anthem.
They would only be kneeling because he was Black. If the guard was white, your retarded kneeling demonstration would not be for him.
 
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