Police Militarization just Received a Major Foothold

[Greoric]

http://sputniknews.com/us/20160708/1042669313/us-police-dallas.html

US police will resort to military style defense strategies during protests in the wake of the Dallas shooting of police officers, former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said on Friday.

Well, a few of you were calling it as it was happening. When events like Dallas happen, you inevitably get a reaction.

Now, it looks very likely we won't just see military equipment and load outs. We're now going to see the posture change as well.

Separating out every other issue, this might be the worst one; the creation of a greater wedge between LE and the community they serve. On the other hand, what's the sensible argument against it? Are we really going to tell these guys they can't post up outward security after five of their guys just got killed in an ambush?

In any event, kiss posse comitatus good bye.

Discuss.

 

[VivaRevolution]

http://sputniknews.com/us/20160708/1042669313/us-police-dallas.html



Well, a few of you were calling it as it was happening. When events like Dallas happen, you inevitably get a reaction.

Now, it looks very likely we won't just see military equipment and load outs. We're now going to see the posture change as well.

Separating out every other issue, this might be the worst one; the creation of a greater wedge between LE and the community they serve. On the other hand, what's the sensible argument against it? Are we really going to tell these guys they can't post up outward security after five of their guys just got killed in an ambush?

In any event, kiss posse comitatus good bye.

Discuss.

You know if I put my @IDL hat on, and ask myself what the purpose is of the divide ploy the media has been at with their coverage of this and other cop stories, the first idea that comes to mind is to further a divide between LE and the community.

I just hope cops are having that discussion as well.

 

[VivaRevolution]

As to the actual tactical changes that come from this, I was recently thinking about the rock and a hard place this puts LE in with massive protests.

I don't see how they can provide security on the ground for protest, or line up in their riot gear, and not expose themselves to the tactics that were used in Dallas.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I'm not in favour of gun control, but in a country with so many of them, it kinda makes sense for the police to up their game somewhat.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'm not in favour of gun control, but in a country with so many of them, it kinda makes sense for the police to up their game somewhat.

I think it only makes sense if you assume the government and the populace should be in a adversarial relationship.

Crazy people are not a new invention. Angry people are not a new invention. Criminals are not a new invention.

 

[Greoric]

You know if I put my IDL hat on, and ask myself what the purpose is of the divide ploy the media has been at with their coverage of this and other cop stories, the first idea that comes to mind is to further a divide between LE and the community.

I just hope cops are having that discussion as well.

Whew, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I think IDL's a smart poster, but I think he tends to see conscious design where there doesn't really need to be one.

I don't see how they can provide security on the ground for protest, or line up in their riot gear, and not expose themselves to the tactics that were used in Dallas.

Overwatch positions solve that pretty easily. If they set those up regularly we would be well deep into counter insurgency operations conducted by American police. Scary if you ask me.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I think it only makes sense if you assume the government and the populace should be in a adversarial relationship.

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks "should be".

 

[IDL]

You know if I put my @IDL hat on, and ask myself what the purpose is of the divide ploy the media has been at with their coverage of this and other cop stories, the first idea that comes to mind is to further a divide between LE and the community.

I just hope cops are having that discussion as well.

That would certainly be a good way to push towards police militarization

And people tend to look at one side of that, which is people mistrusting the police. The other side is generating mistrust in police of civilians.

When you mentioned 'adversarial relationship' I think that is a good way to describe it.

 

[Greoric]

That would certainly be a good way to push towards police militarization

And people tend to look at one side of that, which is people mistrusting the police. The other side is generating mistrust in police of civilians.

And of course the latter would only beget more of the former... a mobius circle accelerant.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Whew, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I think IDL's a smart poster, but I think he tends to see conscious design where there doesn't really need to be one.



Overwatch positions solve that pretty easily. If they set those up regularly we would be well deep into counter insurgency operations conducted by American police. Scary if you ask me.

IDL totally gives in to speculation, but his speculation is of high quality. I think it is a horrible thing that people are ridiculed for speculation. It tends to have a psychological effect of pushing the person who posed the idea to defense of the idea, even if they recognize it is speculation. Or atleast this has been my experience.

I see where you are going with the overwatch, but in a urban theatre, with a mobile operation, and the limited resources of LE in personel, it is a nightmare situation tactically.

 

[IDL]

And of course the latter would only beget more of the former... a mobius circle accelerant.

Absolutely.

 

[VivaRevolution]

And of course the latter would only beget more of the former... a mobius circle accelerant.

And I think this is a fundamental difference between those that are atleast conspiracy sympathetic, to those that ridicule, in that we see clearly these feedback loops, and possible design to this outcome. That it is in fact more likely that it was designed, then it is that it is happenstance.

 

[Greoric]

IDL totally gives in to speculation, but his speculation is of high quality. I think it is a horrible thing that people are ridiculed for speculation. It tends to have a psychological effect of pushing the person who posed the idea to defense of the idea, even if they recognize it is speculation. Or atleast this has been my experience.

I see where you are going with the overwatch, but in a urban theatre, with a mobile operation, and the limited resources of LE in personel, it is a nightmare situation tactically.

Yeah I read you. I definitely appreciate IDL's posts.

Anyways, yeah police have limited resources, but OW posts are the best resource friendly option there is for setting up an outward point of security. A good DM can take on a substantial sector of fire.

 

[Strychnine]

So it seems that we're going to see a proliferation of arms by the Police. That will only cause citizens (law abiding and not) to respond in kind. I don't see how it's a good thing. What's next? Sentry posts, checkpoints, and walling off our poorer areas?

 

[Greoric]

And I think this is a fundamental difference between those that are atleast conspiracy sympathetic, to those that ridicule, in that we see clearly these feedback loops, and possible design to this outcome. That it is in fact more likely that it was designed, then it is that it is happenstance.

I stayed with you until the last sentence. The feedback loop as you put it lends its hand to a greater possibility of conscious design, but I don't think it allows for a greater probability.

 

[Greoric]

So it seems that we're going to see a proliferation of arms by the Police. That will only cause citizens (law abiding and not) to respond in kind. I don't see how it's a good thing. What's next? Sentry posts, checkpoints, and walling off our poorer areas?

Absolutely. Never let a crisis go to waste...

 

[Strychnine]

Absolutely. Never let a crisis go to waste...

Sad, but true... Look at 9-11 and the debacle that followed.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Yeah I read you. I definitely appreciate IDL's posts.

Anyways, yeah police have limited resources, but OW posts are the best resource friendly option there is for setting up an outward point of security. A good DM can take on a substantial sector of fire.

Imagine this scenario. Group of 5 people, stage a bank robbery during protest, with 2 watching the protest and the cops in OW positions. If the cops re-deploy OW to cover the bank robbery, the insurgents at the protest engage ground support. If they do not redeploy, you engage the ground force at the robbery using 2 insurgents in elevated positions as snipers. With the bank robber as bait, and ground engagement.

 

[Greoric]

Imagine this scenario. Group of 5 people, stage a bank robbery during protest, with 2 watching the protest and the cops in OW positions. If the cops re-deploy OW to cover the bank robbery, the insurgents at the protest engage ground support. If they do not redeploy, you engage the ground force at the robbery using 2 insurgents in elevated positions as snipers. With the bank robber as bait, and ground engagement.

What-if land is a dangerous place to go my man. The good idea fairy lives there.

 

[Rod1]

I think the issue is poor officer training as opposed to militarization.