Law Police departments facing critical shortages so some are lowering standards.

[Kirra]

We simply disagree on this. I could not be more against decriminalization because you would still have the same issues but magnified because law enforcement wouldn’t go after any drug crimes and it would be even more open air drug markets selling bad batches. I would rather have legalization than decriminalization. And people with opinions such as yours seriously need to get a new argument other than Portugal. That horse has been beaten to a pulpy mess. One test case is not enough to convince someone such as me that is anti decriminalization. The US is not Portugal and I don’t think we could handle that

Well, if you refuse to see the world as it is there's not much I can do to convince you otherwise.

Lol at "Stop using Portugal as an example because I'm tired of being shown that I'm wrong".

 

[nhbbear]

You have a point. And it even more proves what a total toxic institution the US law enforcement is. Enough posters here who gave examples of cops not doing their jobs because of how they are perceived. Just proves what despicable human beings join law enforcement and how rotten to the core that whole institution is.

Obviously I am going to disagree with you strongly on this point. Uvalde disgusts me on every level, but we also know that many of those cops wanted to go in but were under orders not to, which is so infuriating to me. Another area where cops are said to not being doing their jobs is when they quit proactive policing because of criticism and hate directed at law enforcement. They still answer their calls and patrol, they just don’t actively look to prevent crimes or actively look for them. This leads to an increase in crime in most instances. I admit the law enforcement response is a bit childish and maybe it leads to more victims because of the steep increase in crime, but I also think that response is necessary to get people to want cops to be proactive again. But when you have everyone bashing cops, politicians and office holders renouncing their support with defunding them, screaming in their faces, attacking them with explosives, rocks and bottles, pepper spray, and even murdering cops-I don’t blame the officers that feel that way. It doesn’t make the profession “rotten to the core” because it is giving people what they think they want. The defund movement was such a bunch of garbage mainly because it was used and threatened as punishment and a pee pee slap at all police because of floyd. That’s like if you had three children and one of them misbehaves and you punish all three.

 

[lifelessheap]

We wouldn't even be here if police officers who broke the law were actually arrested rather than protected by their departments. There are thousands of examples and videos of them acting like thugs, hiding behind their badges, with zero accountability. We need DA's that will actually ruffle some feathers and let the the PD's know, that if they break the law or violate peoples rights, they will be prosecuted.

This happened 2 years ago. The officer is still on the force. Why was he not fired immediately and then arrested?


This is why people are turning on police, because they are showing everyone they don't give a fuck and will do whatever they want.

Police are fucking tyrants. They abuse everyone. They have abused me and I don't break the law.


When a knife carrying psycho broke into my home in 1997, the police response time was 55 minutes.

They hate the Constitution. They don't know the law and they want to kill you.







How about trying to kill a pregnant woman because she wanted a safe place to stop?

Qualified immunity. Never accountable.

How about straight up murder and then rendering no aid?




MURDER.

Police are taught to hate us. They earn their own hate.

 

[skaleton]

We disagree on one fundamental issue. We both agree it’s easy to get, we have a ton of overdoses, we need more free rehabs, more education, more resources period. I know we can’t arrest our way out of this issue, however, I believe things would get worse, not better, if the hardcore drugs were legalized. Stigma is a very big factor. It is both negative and positive. It is negative in that normal people that are addicts would fear seeking treatment because it labels them an addict and that has a scummy feel to it as a label. But stigma is also what keeps many people from trying it as well as being illegal. If you legalize it, people assume it is safe, and it never is whether regulated or not. And it may be easy now, but make it legal, and it is absolutely everywhere. Before my back surgery, I was on opioids for severe pain. The week before the surgery, the doctor told me that I had to go off of them or he said I would be in more misery than I could imagine because the pain meds after the surgery would be almost ineffective if I didn’t go off of them. That meant cold Turkey because I had no other options. I finished out the script and didn’t get a refill. That week was so fucking miserable. I remember it was my daughter’s sixth birthday and I struggled through the party and after it was over, I was in my attic crawling up the walls. Withdrawal is a bitch on wheels. I remember thinking that I was a cop and if I wanted ti get some pills, I wouldn’t even know where to start nor would I have done it, but if that shit was available in stores, I wouldn’t have made that week probably without buying more. Even with my neural pathways getting adjusted to being off the pills, the surgery was still miserable. They removed two discs and fused the spine then put brackets on both sides of the spine. Every time I moved, it felt like I was splitting in half. I can only imagine if the pills at the hospital had been less effective. But after all of that, I had to go off of them again, which I tapered and it wasn’t as bad, but still sucked. Now I would never take something not prescribed to me and sure as fuck bit something illegal, but if it was easily accessible in stores….that “illegal” stigma is erased. I would have never told anyone that a few years ago because I was so embarrassed. I had a hard time telling my wife how bad the withdrawals were and was so ashamed. But since, I have opened up to people and have realized that I was in so much pain that medication was the only way I could sit or move and I shouldn’t be ashamed and should be proud that I made it through when so many don’t. So again, stigma isn’t a powerful positive and negative motivator

Portugal decriminalized drugs about twenty years ago.

You're right that overdose deaths increased but it was only in the short term. At this point they have a lower than average drug use rate in Europe.

https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight

https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/portugal-heroin-decriminalization/

This last link gives the best breakdown of overdose deaths in Portugal, a country that began it's decriminalization because of rampant drug use, compared to other countries in Europe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...anyone-dies-from-a-drug-overdose-in-portugal/

I can't find the chart I remember seeing years ago, but they had about a two year spike of deaths and then society seemed to acclimate to a lower od percentage than their neighbors




EDIT
This has a chart at the bottom for a quick summary of success

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.st...lopments-since-portugal-decriminalized-drugs/

 

[Blayt7hh]

Like I said earlier, if I could be a cop again, I would because it was what I knew best and I feel like with my masters that I started while I was recovering from my back surgery, I feel like I would be a better cop now.

I’m sure there are great things about it. It just seems like a really negative atmosphere right now. I also think I personally would have become a bitter person if I were a cop. I see those videos of them dealing with people lying to their faces with really implausible lies like the cops are stupid and that’s a major pet peeve of mine lol. Also I know you guys have to deal with some really upsetting shit at times with some truly awful people. I defined respect anyone that can do it properly.

 

[kenetics]

trained how? I was also a trainer that taught taser, defensive tactics, and pepper spray. I taught new officers how to use force and when. My biggest bitch in my 12 years of being the head tactics trainer was that the department never required any training post academy training in defensive tactics when it should have been an annual or bi-annual mandatory training. And yes, really out of shape or weak officers is not only embarrassing, but also leads to higher levels of force and improper technique.

Yes we have had LEO programs for officer at our mma academy since it's inception. Trained and spoke to thousands of officers.

 

[lifelessheap]

I’m sure there are great things about it. It just seems like a really negative atmosphere right now. I also think I personally would have become a bitter person if I were a cop. I see those videos of them dealing with people lying to their faces with really implausible lies like the cops are stupid and that’s a major pet peeve of mine lol. Also I know you guys have to deal with some really upsetting shit at times with some truly awful people. I defined respect anyone that can do it properly.

Cops are taught to lie. It is procedure. They are extortionists and tyrants.

They have zero duty to protect. They arrest parents trying to save their children from slaughter.

 

[nhbbear]

Well, if you refuse to see the world as it is there's not much I can do to convince you otherwise.

Lol at "Stop using Portugal as an example because I'm tired of being shown that I'm wrong".

You also refuse to budge but I am not so arrogant to say “I am right”.” I said we simply disagree on this matter, but at least I have considered your point of view.

No, what I am saying about Portugal is that is the only example you have. Washington state decriminalized drugs and their violence and overdoses are way up. I had an interesting debate with another poster about that issue and we went back and forth as to whether the rise was due to that reason or because crime and overdoses have risen nationwide, but the increase was more than the nationwide increase by a good margin if I recall.

 

[nhbbear]

Portugal decriminalized drugs about twenty years ago.

You're right that overdose deaths increased but it was only in the short term. At this point they have a lower than average drug use rate in Europe.

https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight

https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/portugal-heroin-decriminalization/

This last link gives the best breakdown of overdose deaths in Portugal, a country that began it's decriminalization because of rampant drug use, compared to other countries in Europe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...anyone-dies-from-a-drug-overdose-in-portugal/

I can't find the chart I remember seeing years ago, but they had about a two year spike of deaths and then society seemed to acclimate to a lower od percentage than their neighbors




EDIT
This has a chart at the bottom for a quick summary of success

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.st...lopments-since-portugal-decriminalized-drugs/

Thank you for providing all that information. I have seen some of that before and I have looked into the Portugal model several times to consider if my opinion is off base. Ultimately, what it comes down to for me is that Portugal is not the US. We have different cultures, societal issues, pressures, and attitudes towards drug use. I honestly don’t believe the US would have an incredible amount of od deaths if decriminalization was the path we took. Due to my experience in law enforcement and what I said in my post about medication, I really do look at both sides. My compassion for addicts has gone up dramatically after my experience and like I said, I think it would have made me a better cop had I been able to continue in law enforcement, I think it would have made me a better cop, but I was more understanding than the average officer ti begin with, but for me, decriminalization seems too wrong to get behind it. I mentioned stigma earlier and I think it comes down to that for legalizing or decriminalizing harder drugs.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Cops are taught to lie. It is procedure. They are extortionists and tyrants.

They have zero duty to protect. They arrest parents trying to save their children from slaughter.

Lol calm down, Beavis.

Something tells me you were one of the people I was describing <45> So are you pro defund the police?

 

[irish_thug]

I say bring back height requirements.

 

[nhbbear]

Yes we have had LEO programs for officer at our mma academy since it's inception. Trained and spoke to thousands of officers.

that’s pretty cool. The gym I used to train at loved the idea of having a cop train there

 

[AZ103]

what about the ones that sodomized gerbils? And clearly, your experience is the standard of most police officers

Hes not the only one. Im pretty pro cop but every person i have ever known personally to go into the force has been abusive, unstable, or had a chip on their shoulder. None of the best people i know are cops and thats unfortunate because a few of them would be an improvement on this shit.

Edit. How do they attract better men in your opinion?

 

[Kirra]

You also refuse to budge but I am not so arrogant to say “I am right”.” I said we simply disagree on this matter, but at least I have considered your point of view.

No, what I am saying about Portugal is that is the only example you have. Washington state decriminalized drugs and their violence and overdoses are way up. I had an interesting debate with another poster about that issue and we went back and forth as to whether the rise was due to that reason or because crime and overdoses have risen nationwide, but the increase was more than the nationwide increase by a good margin if I recall.

It's not really a matter of simple disagreement when the policy you want to keep has ruined and keeps ruining countless lives while simultaneously wasting taxpayer money.

Are drugs even decriminalised in Washington? They seem to be going back and forth on that issue, but feel free to post some stats.

 

[heavyarms21]

The problem:

Police departments across the country are facing such serious shortages that 911 call response times are becoming longer and longer and departments are desperate to fill empty positions. For example, Dallas pd is down almost 600 officers. Chicago went from having 22k people/year going through the process of becoming a police officer in 2018 to less than 4K taking the exam in 2021. Retirements of police officers are up as are resignations.
There were 42.7% more resignations in 2021 than in 2019.
• Agencies of all sizes reported substantial increases in resignations from 2019 to 2021.
• There were 23.6% more retirements in 2021 than in 2019.
• Agencies of all sizes reported an increase in retirements from 2019 to 2020, and large agencies saw the largest increase.
Reasons given have been mostly related to the “racial reckoning” of 20 and officers across the country getting really shit on about the death of floyd and the defund the police movement.

It’s also critical to address this issue while we are facing a rising crime epidemic across the country. Violent crimes such as shootings and murders are up in many cities, some with over 100% increase. It takes at least 8 months for an officer to be able to hit the road by themselves. Usually 4-6 months in the academy and 4-6 months of fto training.

What police departments are doing about it:
Chicago has relaxed the education requirement of 60 college credits if the applicant has prior police experience or related fields. Police departments are eliminating special anti-crime units or gun units, departments are shifting resources to patrol to try and cover vacant positions, and departments are adding incentives to attract applicants or to entice officers not to retire.

My take:
I think lowering standards is a terrible idea, but if they are going to do that, it should be in a smart manner.

My opinion on the matter is that incentives should be offered for college degrees or police experience and it should be an incremental rate depending on the amount of education or experience the applicant has. I didn’t have to have a degree to become a police officer, but I had one from Washington and Jefferson college outside of Pittsburg, which is an elite school. What did it get me? Nothing. Now I have a masters and if I was able to become a police officer again(I can’t because of the metal hardware on my spine), I would expect to be compensated for having an advanced degree. While I have worked with great officers with no college experience, I feel the best I worked with had degrees, but where is the incentive to have a degree if it is not needed? A college education should also be offered for those that don’t have it and want it. I am sure many colleges would be willing to offer decent discounts or free tuition for police officers as it benefits the entire community.
The second thing I would do is to offer years of experience based incremental raises at set levels. So much at three years, so much at 5, 10, 15, etc.

the third thing is that the salary has to be increased and competitive with other professions. Police officers in some cities or counties can make a lot with lots of ot, but in other areas, the pay is laughable. I was a lieutenant and I made a tad over 50k before taxes.

And finally, we have to do something to retain officers. I think that pay is a serious motivator for that.
Offer a bonus every five or ten years to give officers that reason to stay.







https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/w...e-with-critical-staffing-shortages/ar-AAZLdh3


https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/18/us/chicago-police-recruiting-standards/index.html

There are alot more fat cops now

 

[lifelessheap]

Lol calm down, Beavis.

Something tells me you were one of the people I was describing <45> So are you pro defund the police?

No. I want an end to qualified immunity.


You are ignorant.

 

[deadon]

Went to a concert last night and the used stooped their set and said we need to defund the police the crowd wasn't kind lol.
Then rise against was next up and stopped their set to say "we all need to come together " I'm guessing rise got the hint.
Defending the police is showing my crime. The experiment has failed.

 

[KnightTemplar]

We all know what the future of Law Enforcement is...

 

[rocketskates]

The 60 credit thing seems to be only for the biggest PDs in the country like NYC, LA, Chi, etc.
Local PD here is actually fully staffed but this is also a boring suburb where nothing ever happens. And last time they were hiring they were only looking at cops from existing PDs looking to transfer.

Departments everywhere are feeling the squeeze, but definitely more so in big cities. Particularly those run by democrats. If you’re qualified why would you work for a shitty big city when you can make 6 figures in the suburbs? Only makes sense and the current climate isn’t helping.

 

[IamStryker]

But officers are treated so well in the US. Why in the world would people not want to be cops? This is quite baffling.