Police brutality by state: Where it's excessive, where it's not

[JDragon]

It's obvious that US police killings of suspects cannot be measured in 'normal' categories because there seems to be something fundamentally different. So I thought it might be nice to have some insight on where US police may be considered as especially out of control.

Obviously, this was inspired in part by this nice, civilized exchange:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33613783

The official version is that she hanged herself in her cell, but that seems odd given the circumstances.

This obviously happened in Texas.

Ur such a piece of shit. Have u killed any Jews today? U r German after all, right?

So here is what I did in my lunch break. (Note: No, this is not the most scientific approach to this, sure.)

I used data from www.killedbypolice.net to count police killings by state 2013-2015. From that, I calculated the share of police killings in percent.

Then I checked what the population share is (i.e.: which share of police killings would you expect based on population?) and calculated what I called an Excess Police Brutality Factor. For example, if your state's share in police killings is 10%, but your population share is only 5%, then the "Excess Police Brutality Factor" would be 10% divided by 5% = 2, indicating there are 2x as many killings as you'd expect based on population. Conversely, if your state's share in police killings is 10%, but your population share is 20%, the factor would be 0.5, indicating that there are only half as many killings as you'd expect based on population.

Obviously, there may be other factors influencing the number of police killings. I thought that having a lot of violent crime should surely influence it. If there are a lot of hardened gang criminals, police will have to escalate violence more often. So I calculated the same thing as above based on FBI violent crime figures: What is the share of violent crimes committed in a specific state? And based on this, are there more or less police killings than we'd expect?

Based on this, I calculated a "Range of lives wasted". If the results of the two calculations from above are not conclusive - i.e., if one indicates there are less killings than you'd expect and the other one says there are more - I denoted that in the Conclusion column.

In total figures, California, Arizona, Texas and Oklahoma appear to be the most excessive. On the other end of the spectrum, you can see that - speaking strictly in terms of what's normal in US terms! - the NY police could kill dozens of people a year on top and would still not be excessive in national comparison.

 

[Kick Strickland]

This is 2015. Cops are brutal everywhere.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Police killings =/= police brutality

 

[InvestigatorIL]

This is 2015. Cops are brutal everywhere.

Correct answer

 

[oldshadow]

Did you separate justified from unjustified?

 

[Dolomite]

I used data from www.killedbypolice.net

I chuckled at that a little.

California, Arizona, Texas and Oklahoma appear to be the most excessive.

I could have told you that.

But fucking seriously: If you get pulled over in TX or OK do not even think of getting fresh or acting tough with a cop - regardless of your race, creed or age - is this not known?

 

[7437]

Did you separate justified from unjustified?

for some reason the police departments have not released that statistic. Most just have no unjustified killings, ever.

 

[Kick Strickland]

But fucking seriously: If you get pulled over in TX or OK do not even think of getting fresh or acting tough with a cop - regardless of your race, creed or age - is this not known?

I live in Bama and I wouldn't recommend doing that shit here, either.

They'll put 6 or 7 warning shots in your back.

 

[JDragon]

This is 2015. Cops are brutal everywhere.

This is kind of what I was saying. Especially when compared to other countries in the Western world, the US police kill rates are exceptionally high. But there still are degrees of brutality and use of excessive force.

Police killings =/= police brutality

I don't think taking killings as an indicator for brutality is wrong. Killing someone is the most brutal form of violence.

Did you separate justified from unjustified?

No, this was just my lunch break exercise. Seeing many cases are highly contentious, I do not see how that would have improved the data, as well. I just took the total figures.

Do you believe that there is a difference in the share of justified vs unjustified killings per state?

My view is rather the following: If you have more police killings than justified by the size of your state and it is not explained by the level of violent crime, it is an indicator that you may have a problem with too many police killings. (As I said, this is not the most scientific way to go about this. And for example, from a content perspective, I probably should have looked into % of crimes committed with a gun as well. If you are more likely to face a criminal with a gun in California, Arizona and Texas than in New York, then that would explain part of this, as well.)

 

[JDragon]

I chuckled at that a little.

:icon_chee

Seriously, I know it's not an FBI database, but I think it's not that contentious because I am not saying these were murders, homicides, etc., just killings the police is responsible for. Just as an example: Sandra Bland is not one of the cases.

 

[oldshadow]

This is kind of what I was saying. Especially when compared to other countries in the Western world, the US police kill rates are exceptionally high. But there still are degrees of brutality and use of excessive force.



I don't think taking killings as an indicator for brutality is wrong. Killing someone is the most brutal form of violence.



No, this was just my lunch break exercise. Seeing many cases are highly contentious, I do not see how that would have improved the data, as well. I just took the total figures.

Do you believe that there is a difference in the share of justified vs unjustified killings per state?

My view is rather the following: If you have more police killings than justified by the size of your state and it is not explained by the level of violent crime, it is an indicator that you may have a problem with too many police killings. (As I said, this is not the most scientific way to go about this. And for example, from a content perspective, I probably should have looked into % of crimes committed with a gun as well. If you are more likely to face a criminal with a gun in California, Arizona and Texas than in New York, then that would explain part of this, as well.)

This but you don't go by who can have and carry a gun but who does carry a gun illegally as a criminal.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Police "brutality" implies an excessive level of force beyond what was reasonably necessary.

For example, I wouldn't call police shooting an armed person in the act of shooting/stabbing another person "brutality"

 

[Devout Pessimist]

The state has a monopoly on violence. Therefore, the state is immoral and if we get rid of the state people will magically become moral because the evil that is the state will no longer exist. Am I doing this right?

 

[JDragon]

The state has a monopoly on violence. Therefore, the state is immoral and if we get rid of the state people will magically become moral because the evil that is the state will no longer exist. Am I doing this right?

No. I have no clue what you are talking about tbh.

 

[JDragon]

Police "brutality" implies an excessive level of force beyond what was reasonably necessary.

For example, I wouldn't call police shooting an armed person in the act of shooting/stabbing another person "brutality"

That is why I looked into the level of violent crime in each state.

 

[Quipling]

I have a friend who did some related work with a criminal law professor who was interested in the matter. One particularly astounding stat about U.S. police departments is how fragmented the system is. Most countries have far fewer different departments and divisions - often in double to triple digits. The U.S. has tens of thousands.

It's possible this is related to resistance to effective reformation, allowing bad pockets to fester unaddressed for long periods of time.

 

[Dolomite]

It's possible this is related to resistance to effective reformation, allowing bad pockets to fester unaddressed for long periods of time.

What about the possibility that voters located near those festering bad pockets like the way their police departments are not under the thumb of State or Federal-level law enforcement?

 

[Quipling]

What about the possibility that voters located near those festering bad pockets like the way their police departments are not under the thumb of State or Federal-level law enforcement?

Wot? While the federal government might have limited capacity to address local police departments, states have a lot of power in that area. And while some voters might like it, that doesn't mean that other parts of the population aren't being abused.