Please tell me your opinion regarding this math problem

The question is shit. The idea behind it is quite good. I was thought how to do this extensively in 6th grade, I did some of this already just by naturally learning and my dad teaching me but it basically taught us all the basic tricks and to become, quick and efficient at it. We had like an entire couple weeks taking all the math we had learned and were thought how to "simplify" the equations. Basically the question was 8+5=13. Simplify it. (8+2)+3=13. Obviously the questions weren't literally that easy but it was good to practice this for quick basic math problem solving in your head. It made the class pretty good at math word problems as well.

Yeah, but look at you now
 
There is more than one way to approach math. I don't care how it's done as long as it gets results, but it should be flexible enough to allow different students to use different methods. And in before somebody blames Obama for this.

I blame Bush.
 
Instead of coming up with these funky ass meaningless questions, they should be teaching these kids something useful. If they can add, why do this funky ass "make ten" shit? Just do the usual order. Teach them multiplication... then algebra next. Then teach them trig and calc.

Imagine how difficult it's going to be on these kids in Calc 2 trying to, "make ten" when the problem calls for derivatives.
 
Another quote in defense of the teacher:




A bunch of Euros agreed with him, and it was a highly rated comment.

I thought common core was shit until someone explained how it is emulating how we think. And its true, 8 is 3 more than 5, if 5 plus 5 is 10 then 5 plus 8 is 13. Is easier in a mind to add 3 to 10, so break it up that way. I think many of the common core questions we see in stories are bad adaptations or troll attempts from fixed news.
 
I think a good indicator if these changes are really thought to be better would be to look at what private schools the wealthy send their kids and see if it is taught there.
 
I think a good indicator if these changes are really thought to be better would be to look at what private schools the wealthy send their kids and see if it is taught there.

Deal is, I didn't grow up with it, so it looks fuck all weird to me. But who knows, maybe for someone starting from a clean slate it's better. The only people who'd know for sure is a teacher that has taught both ways.

But it looks like shit to me, to be honest.
 
I thought common core was shit until someone explained how it is emulating how we think. And its true, 8 is 3 more than 5, if 5 plus 5 is 10 then 5 plus 8 is 13. Is easier in a mind to add 3 to 10, so break it up that way. I think many of the common core questions we see in stories are bad adaptations or troll attempts from fixed news.

talk to an engineering professor and tell me what they have to say
 
If anything, I would say its the opposite. Understanding that all numbers are sums of other of numbers and can be broken down into those numbers to be more manageable is much more difficult than memorizing 8+5=13. I agree its a poorly worded question though.

More difficult in what sense? I think we can all agree that doing maths in your head requires superior cognitive ability than writing it out on paper, and that the reason for these teaching methods are to be inclusive of less intelligent students. You say more difficult, I say more convoluted, tedious, and discouraging.
 
More difficult in what sense? I think we can all agree that doing maths in your head requires superior cognitive ability than writing it out on paper, and that the reason for these teaching methods are to be inclusive of less intelligent students. You say more difficult, I say more convoluted, tedious, and discouraging.

I think I agree with this.
 
I'm not sure what the rationale is for that.

Let's compare number of steps and the mechanism involved with a few methods.

Method 1 count.

Simple enough count out 8 then count 5 more and see where you are on the number line. This I think is the most concrete method and allows kids to have a clear idea of what's happening. You got to memorize how to count though. However there aren't that many rules and it's the basis for everything else so it has to be done at some point prior anyways. However it's slowest method.

Method 2.

Recall math facts from learning a table. The math fact tables if I recall correctly are either a 9 x 9 table or a 10 x 10 table. Since addition is commutative you need to learn ~ 50 facts for addition. Not too bad if you ask me.

So 8+5 is simply recalling the number you memorized when you learned the tables.

1 step and is the fastest method.

Method 3 finding the 10s?

?????

You replace 1 mental look up with 3? And you add another operator? And you have to memorize all them anyways otherwise it's inefficient. So 3 operations, minimum, instead of 1. And what's the concept it's teaching that you would otherwise not know?

I'd like to see the official explanation on why this is taught.
 
I thought common core was shit until someone explained how it is emulating how we think. And its true, 8 is 3 more than 5, if 5 plus 5 is 10 then 5 plus 8 is 13. Is easier in a mind to add 3 to 10, so break it up that way. I think many of the common core questions we see in stories are bad adaptations or troll attempts from fixed news.

It's using more memorization and convoluted, for a child at least strategies, to not use memorization of simple tables that you have to memorize to use the strategy anyways. I'd rather they teach them with Montessori style materials such as beads so they get a good concrete foundation for math.
 
If anything, I would say its the opposite. Understanding that all numbers are sums of other of numbers and can be broken down into those numbers to be more manageable is much more difficult than memorizing 8+5=13. I agree its a poorly worded question though.

Exactly. By the time you can use this skill to replace the other skill you have to master the other skill and subtraction.

The question is shit. The idea behind it is quite good. I was thought how to do this extensively in 6th grade, I did some of this already just by naturally learning and my dad teaching me but it basically taught us all the basic tricks and to become, quick and efficient at it. We had like an entire couple weeks taking all the math we had learned and were thought how to "simplify" the equations. Basically the question was 8+5=13. Simplify it. (8+2)+3=13. Obviously the questions weren't literally that easy but it was good to practice this for quick basic math problem solving in your head. It made the class pretty good at math word problems as well.

Sure, but in 6th grade if you are still working on addition than something is truly wrong.
 
Strange that they're teaching this "make 10" strategy. When I was a kid that's something I came up with on my own and my teachers told me it was wrong, that I should solve math in as few of steps as possible... "making 10" is a wasted step that slows you down.

I guess I was right and they were wrong.

Meh. Just a difference in style.
For some people it's easier, for other it's harder.
 
i dunno how much opinion someone can really have on math. its.... math.

Yeah but the wording of the question isn't. It's terribly articulated. I never heard of the 'making 10' strategy by name growing up, though I know it an apply it.

If the class had been learning this explicitly for a while leading up to the test, then maybe the kid should have put 2 and 2 together (sorry). Otherwise (or regardless), this math teacher might want to clarify what he or she is looking for. Math is a very precise discipline, and ambiguity in a question won't do.
 
When I add I was always break it up in my head so if I'm adding 85 and 53 what I'm actually doing is 80 + 50 = 130 + 5 + 3 = 138.

I'll be honest though I didn't get the question in the op. The wording was terrible.

Yeah, but then this becomes harder for something like 57+89. I do it the old fashioned way for something like this. Add up in my head like on paper. Ones first, carry over and add to tens. Or 130+(9+7) then ignore the hundreds place and add 30+16 to make 146.

talk to an engineering professor and tell me what they have to say

Engineers aren't the only people that do math. And the topic of rote memorization vs using logical processes isn't even exclusive to STEM.

More difficult in what sense? I think we can all agree that doing maths in your head requires superior cognitive ability than writing it out on paper, and that the reason for these teaching methods are to be inclusive of less intelligent students. You say more difficult, I say more convoluted, tedious, and discouraging.

I don't think you understood his point. You don't have to write out anything to be able to do the make 10 method. After learning multiplication I naturally started using multiples to do some addition. 9+5 became 9+3=12+2=14. 8+5 became 8+4=12+1=13. I remember 7+8 because it's 1 more or less than 14 or 16 (7x2 and 8x2 respectively). I've also been doing make 10 and an example that easily comes to mind is 7+5 becomes 7+3=10+2=12. These made things easier for me and I learned through rote memorization.

In my experience, the more I learned the more I needed to simplify or create memory devices for the most part.

I've seen plenty of professors and intelligent people count aloud or seemingly in their head. My question would be is this method better to learn after rote or can rote really be bypassed, especially at this level? Doing tricks that specifically utilize place values, multiples, etc. make an easier argument for critical thinking.
 
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Math teacher can't English. The End.
 
Regarding the original question, it was shit. If my child was marked down for that I would complain to the teacher. The teacher's remark seemed snide to me, too. Sometimes we add things that aren't sets, and can't be broken down into smaller sets. There were no units on 8 and 5. What if they were battery voltages?

The question did not convey that making 10 was one step along the way to getting the actual answer. Instead, it implied that 8 + 5 actually was 10, which is incorrect and confusing.

Having said that, applying a strategy of breaking math questions down into simpler math questions is very important.


Instead of coming up with these funky ass meaningless questions, they should be teaching these kids something useful. If they can add, why do this funky ass "make ten" shit? Just do the usual order. Teach them multiplication... then algebra next. Then teach them trig and calc.

Imagine how difficult it's going to be on these kids in Calc 2 trying to, "make ten" when the problem calls for derivatives.

What Blackened doesn't appear to understand is that this arithmetic strategy IS based on algebraic principles.

Think of it like this:
8 + 5 = X
8 + (2 + 3) = X
(8 + 2) + 3 = X
10 + 3 = X
13 = X

We substitute (2 + 3) into the equation in place of 5, and it works because they are equivalent. Equivalence is a very important concept for algebra. Students are also learning to apply the commutative property of addition (without even knowing it).

As other posters have mentioned, a lot of us figured out how to do this on our own. However, it is something that everyone should learn. By using these techniques, students improve their numeracy, and are more capable of solving complicated arithmetic because they see how to break it down into a few simple steps instead of having to do one big complicated step.

Really, the standard methods try to do the same thing. It's standard for students to learn to add different place values separately, and then combine the answers. However, that isn't always the most efficient approach.

Example: 53 + 99
Standard:
53 + 99 = X
((5 + 9) x 10) + (3 + 9) = X
(14 x 10) + (12) = X
140 + 12 = X
152 = X

By contrast:
53 + 99 = X
(53 - 1 ) + (99 + 1) = X (making 100s)
52 + 100 = X
152 = X

I think it's important to teach this type of strategy as an option, and I understand that it utilizes algebraic principles which will make the students BETTER prepared for algebra. However, I think it's important to ultimately let the students decide how they want to do simple arithmetic (and any math problem for that matter) as long as the approach is sound.
 
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Poorly worded question but may be fine depending on how these things were done in class.

The kid needs to spend some time in English and taking some penmanship classes.
 
Poor wording. The math teacher should probably take some english classes.
 
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