Pivotal Moments: Dillashaw vs Barao pt 2 ( technique breakdown)

[Ignoramus]

That's the same conclusion I've come to, but Duane Ludwig did come to our gym with TJ to teach, and a lot of our guys have been playing around with his system which drills a lot of things from both stances. Is this a waste of time and effort?

The way I see it, many of the greats have switch hitted at least once in their career due to their mastery of the game (Ali, Floyd, Roy Jones, etc.). I haven't seen them win fights BECAUSE of that, though.

But there's the idea that a fighter should be strong in all positions

 

[flanellograf]

That's the same conclusion I've come to, but Duane Ludwig did come to our gym with TJ to teach, and a lot of our guys have been playing around with his system which drills a lot of things from both stances. Is this a waste of time and effort?

The way I see it, many of the greats have switch hitted at least once in their career due to their mastery of the game (Ali, Floyd, Roy Jones, etc.). I haven't seen them win fights BECAUSE of that, though.

But there's the idea that a fighter should be strong in all positions

 

[a guy]

Switching is a lot more valuable on offense when kicking is involved.

 

[Ignoramus]

And I don't think it really is necessary for striking, even though a lot of times with kicks you'll be forced into an opposite stance. Lets not forget that Benavidez of Alpha Male got KO'd for his first time ever by Mighty Mouse right after he was switching stances.

I think that kind of specialization, which includes unorthodox moves in general, work well against a specific kind of fighter in a specific kind of fight. If Barao were to get a rematch we'd see a different fight.

 

[flanellograf]

And I don't think it really is necessary for striking, even though a lot of times with kicks you'll be forced into an opposite stance. Lets not forget that Benavidez of Alpha Male got KO'd for his first time ever by Mighty Mouse right after he was switching stances.

I think that kind of specialization, which includes unorthodox moves in general, work well against a specific kind of fighter in a specific kind of fight. If Barao were to get a rematch we'd see a different fight.

I doubt Barao would be able to change his style or approach enough to combat it. His style is probably pretty ingrained by now.

 

[Sinister]

That's the same conclusion I've come to, but Duane Ludwig did come to our gym with TJ to teach, and a lot of our guys have been playing around with his system which drills a lot of things from both stances. Is this a waste of time and effort?

The way I see it, many of the greats have switch hitted at least once in their career due to their mastery of the game (Ali, Floyd, Roy Jones, etc.). I haven't seen them win fights BECAUSE of that, though.

But there's the idea that a fighter should be strong in all positions

 

[Discipulus]

Lu, have you ever worked with somebody from a TMA background that was comfortable and competent in both stances? I think everybody has their preferred side, but many Korean, Japanese, and Chinese martial arts encourage students to practice techniques and movements from both stances from the very beginning.

 

[Sinister]

Comfortable? Yes. Competent for boxing standards? No.

 

[shpboris]

Comfortable? Yes. Competent for boxing standards? No.

What is your opinion on Salido's switch-hitting ? Looks like he uses it quite a lot and it works for him on a very high level of boxing.

 

[Sinister]

Everything Salido does that's ugly and horrible works for him on a high level of boxing.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Right on the first point.

As for the question, it depends. Even among the best switch-hitters I've ever seen, there's a second of mental delay. It reminds me of back in the days of reversing cassette tapes. There's a pause, then the music starts. Same with switch-hitters. The closest I've seen it to seamless IS during offensive maneuvers mostly. Usually, when my guys deal with switch-hitters, I encourage them to initiate quickly just after the switch, with the worst combinations for the opposite-stanced fighter to deal with. It pretty much works like a charm.

Now keep in-mind, I'm a trainer...AND I'm a southpaw. So I have to think backwards quite a bit to train my orthodox fighters, who are the majority of guys I train. So I've had to get pretty decent at standing orthodox, and once upon a time I too was fascinated with switching. I've just hardly ever seen the scenarios where I felt that the glaring vulnerabilities were very well accounted for.

As a southpaw Ive occasionally had training partners attempt to switch stances in order to deal with the awkwardness they feel trying to spar me. A few of them are ok as southpaws offensively; their jab is snappy and on point, their cross is weaker but quicker. Lead leg kicks are more powerful, and some of them have trained enough switch stance to put together combinations.

However, I've never seen a fighter interested in fighting opposite stance that learns e stance from the base up. Rather than learning to move and defend as a southpaw first and THEN putting together offense, they take their same offensive weapons and fire them off with their feet switched. Consequently, when ever any of my training partners switch stances, I bum rush in and overwhelm them with combinations and pressure. To a man they all switch back before attempting to counter my offense.

 

[Jukai]

Stance switching is going to become huge in MMA. It's hard to get away with in pure striking-styles, but I don't think many strikers are going to be able to capitalize on that split second switch.

The thing that immensely impressed me with TJ is that when he was in Orthodox, he was setting up his attacks with the left hand, while when he was in Southpaw, he worked on hand trapping and getting his lead foot on the outside. He was really fighting like two different fighters.

 

[devante]

As a southpaw Ive occasionally had training partners attempt to switch stances in order to deal with the awkwardness they feel trying to spar me. A few of them are ok as southpaws offensively; their jab is snappy and on point, their cross is weaker but quicker. Lead leg kicks are more powerful, and some of them have trained enough switch stance to put together combinations.

However, I've never seen a fighter interested in fighting opposite stance that learns e stance from the base up. Rather than learning to move and defend as a southpaw first and THEN putting together offense, they take their same offensive weapons and fire them off with their feet switched. Consequently, when ever any of my training partners switch stances, I bum rush in and overwhelm them with combinations and pressure. To a man they all switch back before attempting to counter my offense.

Your right most guys use it to create opportunities or confusion..they don't drill it or use it enough to stay in that stance for extended periods which leads to what you mentioned, they go right back to their original stance.

I switch stances..not that I am good or great..etc etc..but I have gotten to the point where peopleactually think I am southpaw..not orthodox. When its actually the reverse..I just use the southpaw so much that people tend tkd think that's what I actually am. Once again I'm not spectacular or great..

When I trained with saamag I used to do everything he showed me from both sides...and would spar him from southpaw exclusively or spar other people exclusively just to really get comfortable with it..not just do one or two things from it.

Now I am not great so I am not great on either side..but in sparring I can stick to either stance and do well enough..I.e. I don't go to a default stance when pressured in either..I can attack or defend or counter from both..obviously better from one stance than the other. I do offense better in one stance...defense better in another. But I don't retreat to one or the other..automatically.

As stated most people aren't gonna drill both sides effectively enough to even be decent..and most wont take their lumps using different stances long enough to get any sort of comfort much less skill in their different stances.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Stance switching is going to become huge in MMA. It's hard to get away with in pure striking-styles, but I don't think many strikers are going to be able to capitalize on that split second switch.

The thing that immensely impressed me with TJ is that when he was in Orthodox, he was setting up his attacks with the left hand, while when he was in Southpaw, he worked on hand trapping and getting his lead foot on the outside. He was really fighting like two different fighters.

Wrestlers are at a distinct advantage in this. They learn to wrestle with their lead foot forward, so training them to throw and defend strikes from that same stance isn't much of a stretch for them mentally. They've usually got a good idea of timing and distance as well, though teaching them not to square up and to have better fight posture is a nightmare.

 

[Sinister]

Good fighters will be able to capitalize on catching a guy in a switch, FWIW.

 

[Jukai]

Good fighters will be able to capitalize on catching a guy in a switch, FWIW.

It'll be far more rare in MMA than in boxing or kickboxing. Cruz did it for ten straight fights without ever getting dropped.

 

[Sinister]

Cruz didn't get dropped, but Benavidez did a very good job catching him when switching, so did Faber (and I was pulling for Cruz in that bout).

I don't think there's a such thing as a consistent flaw that will be perpetually unable to be exploited.

 

[Jukai]

Cruz didn't get dropped, but Benavidez did a very good job catching him when switching, so did Faber (and I was pulling for Cruz in that bout).

I don't think there's a such thing as a consistent flaw that will be perpetually unable to be exploited.

It's consistent and exploitable but I don't think it's huge and I think the increased offense outweigh the risk.

And Faber ate more hooks coming in with that lunging right than he did hitting Cruz.

 

[Sinister]

Yeah, but you said you didn't think it would be able to be exploited.

 

[Jukai]

Yeah, but you said you didn't think it would be able to be exploited.

If it reads that way, then I apologize. I said very few would be able to exploit it, and that it isn't as big of a flaw in striking only styles such as boxing and kickboxing. It's offensive potential outweighs its defensive negatives.