PFP foolishness

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by intrepid brawler, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    I said I think Loma beats Stevenson because he's a better fighter, pretty clearly. I just thought it was a little weird that you were whining about Lomas (overrated) resume and then giving STevenson a pass for it (also you very explicitly said that I was comparing Linares to Stevenson, which I wasn't, even if Linares is objectively a more accomplished fighter).

    I just don't think he beats Loma, he's not going to be ready for Loma's weird style and even if he's a good ring general he's going to be in there with a guy whose level he hasn't faced yet. Lack of experience more than anything.
     
  2. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    ok, my bad. i had heard he was running a business in jamaica and wasn't interested in boxing anymore. seems to me in the last 4 years if he was serious he would have made comeback.

    And to say he's being "frozen out"{ is nonsense...duran wasn't frozen out after no mas. rigo wasnt frozen out. a lotta fighters quit and come back. He hasn't fought in 4 years because his heart is not in the sport. that should be as obvious as the sun in the sky on a clear day.
     
  3. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    uhhh Rigo was very much frozen out of US network TV, though you could argue that was an issue even before he quit against Loma. Pointing to Duran isn't a great example either because Walters wasn't a name, Duran was. All I'll say is if you're a fighter without much of a name and you pull the shit Walters did, good luck getting invited back to the biggest boxing channel in the world.

    Maybe his heart is or isn't in the sport, we don't know. That just sounds like a bunch of excuse making for why he was clowned by a smaller guy
     
  4. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    i don't know about being a "star"...i know he ko'd nonito and he ko'd vic. those wins at least put him in the conversation for being a star. he was a ko artist and one of the the bogeyman of the division. so, maybe he wouldnt have made the big money like some other guys, but to get paid 1/3 of what an unproven guy like loma with 7 fights and a loss to salido? maybe you don't see it, but it's clear to me that's where the real issue was.
     
  5. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    boxing isn't a fair sport and by the time Walters fought Loma Loma was a two division titlist and a bigger name. Like it or not that split probably wasn't that unfair and even if it was... tough. Most fighters don't get fair splits. You're just looking for excuses because you don't want to admit that Loma just wiped the dude.
     
  6. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    dude, you know damn well, i was saying loma was not pfp #1 based on his resume. that's where the topic of resume came up...that's what this thread started off as. if loma was not being touted as #1 pfp, i would have no problem with is resume just as i have no problem with grj resume. but nobody is calling grj pfp #1.

    my point is, you can't say a fighter is pfp #1 if all he's beating is ordinary talent that a lot of other fighters could beat and losing to guys who aren't even proven that great.

    head to head, records don't matter as much, though...you feel the same way too, since you picked lopez over loma even though loma has the better record.
     
    Smashus Clay likes this.
  7. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    its not jsut duran and rigo...those are the first to come to mind....there are other fighters who have quit or turned in dismal performances and came back to fight on the networks. walters loss to loma isn't the reason he hasnt fought...its that he doesn't WANT to fight anymore.
     
  8. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    there goes the "you're just making excuses" thing again. you know damn well walters was the champ and loma was the challnger. you know damn well KOs over vic and nonito count for more than what loma had done in his career. you know walters got paid 300K to lomas 1M. you saw walters sorry-ass performance and the fact he never fought again and all the talk that it was the money. yet, you choose to ignore all that...pretend like it didn't happen or that it has no meaning...must be very convenient to ignore anything that doesn't fit with your own narrow, one-sided narrative.
     
  9. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    yeah I don't disagree here about Loma's resume being overblown and him not being #1 P4P. I just don't think Stevenson is good enough to beat Loma, at least not yet. Simple.
     
  10. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    it wasn't that he lost. Fighters lose. It was that he quit and spent the after fight making excuses. Walters behavior post fight was genuinely disgraceful. And unlike Duran, he wasn't a name, so nobody cared if he got canned by the network or not. Just saying: if you want to keep fighting and making money from the sport (and Walters said he did), you don't give the middle finger to the audience of the biggest boxing channel. You can make all the excuses you want, Loma beat his ass and made him look terrible.
     
  11. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    well, we can agree to disagree....i think you'll be surprised at how good stevenson turns out to be. he's gonna eclipse loma...but then again, that's not saying much.

    you do understand that i have no problem with any of these fighters. but when it comes to pfp, they can't all fight each other across different weight classes though, so that's when we look at resumes to compare a fly weight with, say a heavyweight. that's the only objective measure we have...and it's not that objective.
     
  12. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    you are

    Loma had the 130lbs WBO title, Walters was titleless at 130 lbs.

    ehhhh, there isn't much to pick from between beating a shot Vic and Nonito versus Martinez and Russell.

    oh no pay discrepencies, that's never happened before in professional boxing between a guy with a name and a guy who doesn't have much of a name.

    Walters wanted to fight again. He still wants to fight. He got embarassed and didn't feel like going through 12 rounds of looking like an idiot. It's whatever, but I don't buy that excuse (and yes, it's an excuse) for a second. FWIW Walters first excuse in the post-fight interview was injury related, not money.
     
  13. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    we'll see, you might be right. I think he's gonna have a tougher time once he meets the big boys at 130 and 135. He already faced nobody of worth at 126, I don't thnk that'll prepare him for Colbert or Tank and certainly not for Haney/Lopez/Garcia.

    Stevenson has the options that he could easily overtake Loma's resume, but he didn't do it at 126, so maybe he isn't as willing to throw down with the big dogs as he likes to say.
     
  14. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    no. that had nothing to do with it. i can probably name a dozen fighters who looked terrible, quit and made excuses. then still came back to have a full career. this is boxing...the one sport where you can disgrace yourself like nobody's business and still comeback and make millions. the thing with walters is he had the talent...he had already won a title, beating some of the best fighters in the world. he coulda rebuilt his career... moved up and probably won a title or hung around and become a well-known gatekeeper. he had the option to continue a lucrative career. he chose not to. it all stemmed from the loma fight. look at walters against nonito and against vic and sosa. he was a warrior. then the loma fight happened and he's never heard from again.

    i don't know why you're refusing to see what is right before your face. look, the guy had given god knows how many years to this sport, sacrificed god knows how much...then in the biggest moment of his career he gets fucked over and treated like garbage....would you stick around someplace you're not wanted? people treating you like shit and you still wanna please them and put it all on the line for them? i don't know for sure becuase i don't know the guy. but from what i heard and from what it seems, the guy was made so bitter by the experience he wanted nothing more to do with it.
     
  15. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    sure, but the ones who do that and stick around are already popular fighters with a name and a following. Walters didn't have that and frankly, he shat the bed harder htan most fighters I can think of. He made a total ass of himself.


    uhhhh Walters has explicitly stated that he hopes to continue his career. It's probably hard to find a network that will have you fight after what he pulled against Loma. I mean Rigo was effectively exiled from HBO because he was "boring." It's tough to stay syndicated, especially when you don't try and act like a crybaby.

    yeah because he faced a better fighter that embarassed him on national TV and then he acted like a crybaby.

    yeah I'm sure he's probably somewhat annoyed but he lost to Loma because Loma was a better fighter, plain and simple. If the dude really wanted to make that money and elevate himself to the next level he'd have beaten Loma, or he'd at least have tried. But he didn't. He got embarassed and ran home with his bruised ego and was essentially exiled from the sport because of how embarassing his actions were. Fighters get fucked over all the time, if he was really that upset he would never have signed to fight Loma to begin with. This is just pathetic excuse making. C'mon man.

    And again, he made several planned returns after the Loma loss. So I'm not sure how you can even stick to this talking point.
     
  16. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    lemme put it to you this way. you have a live-in girlfriend. everyday you get home from work she greets you at the door with a kiss, serves you a hot meal and you guys stay up til 10 watching your favorite netflix miniseries. so, one day you come home. she doesn't greet you at the door. she tells you to heat up a tv dinner and she goes to bed without even so much as kissing you goodnight.

    now, you strike me as the kind of guy who would tell yourself "oh, nothing wrong, she's just tired or not in the mood." and be content with that. but you would be missing some of the most important clues as to her behavior and your relationship. in that situation, you should ask her what's wrong and take the time to listen....because there's obviously something really, really wrong. you just not paying attention.

    another example is the lewis mccall rematch. mccall quit...it was called for lewis.

    but the rest of the story was that mccall had been having a mental breakdown...ended up in psychiatric care.

    i bring this up because you're the type of fan who woulda just said "lewis embarrassed mccall...no excuses"...but the fact is, mccall DID have an excuse. he was having a nervous breakdown. that's a very real thing.... to you it's not real, because you simply don't care.

    Your not caring about other people's problems and how they're feeling is a reflection on your ability to understand what is really going on with these fighters and who knows what else. that's why you stick to the clearly misleading and facile narrative that "walters lost and no excuses." the man was obviously in no mental shape to fight...look at the fight. it's not like walters was hurt. he wasn't ever rocked or dropped or had any real damage inflicted on him...loma was doing right by scampering around the ring landing quick combos...that's what you do against a walters, but walters was never in any trouble...ask yourself why walters never re-adjusted his game plan...why he didn't even try....why he quit when he was clearly able to continue. it's because he didn't want to be in the ring....he came to get his money and that's it.

    it wasn't a great win by loma. it was a quit job by walters in protest of the low pay he was getting compared to his less accomplished challenger. i doubt you will ever be able to see that though. you seem to like your reality constructed in a way that makes the most complex things very simplistic.
     
  17. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,826
    Likes Received:
    511
    allright dude continue to lie to yourself and pretend to believe that. Walters lost, if you thought he was never as good as billed and that's the reason that you don't rate it as a win, fine, but this is genuinely ludicrous excuse making and it's based on absolutely nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  18. HandNoise Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2018
    Messages:
    3,494
    Likes Received:
    667
    I was just joking for the same reason I was a big fan and thought he was going to get through Salido just fine. But he sort of showed signs of his chin being flawed back in the Concepcion fight when Bernabe landed a short left hook while on the ropes, when ever he got rocked the reaction wasn’t a quick buzz but that snappy reaction that you just go “oh shit is he going to get his legs back?”

    Thing is his defense was flawed, that straight left was a hammer and that lead right hook was like a fucking train, He was used to running right through dudes In the first half, even good competition, he’d swing away with that chin out there in the open.

    It’s just crazy the way he got shattered that all his loses ended up in KO’s and you just had to touch his chin to see him dance, kind of sad. His last L was to Velez, whom I think a pre-Salido Lopez demolishes even with Velez at 5’8 and 130.
     
  19. Seano Hands of bone

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    117,903
    Likes Received:
    5,982
    Location:
    the sticks
    Juanma was a decent fighter but he got right hook crazy and seemed determined to win every fight with that right hook.
     
    HandNoise likes this.
  20. intrepid brawler Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    191
    it's based on a lot. you simply refuse to see what's clear as day in front of your eyes. of course you don't have that problem when it comes to lomachenko losing because of the "size difference" though. that "excuse" is just fine with you.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.