PFL doing worst than WSOF

[StayCranked]

ah man thats sad I just watched PFL 1 and was really impressed
really like the idea and the fights are better than expected

 

[RODNEY83]

Him and skylolow are doing a better job in this "debate" than you and that Rodney dude are...

My entire point is give it time. What is the freaking rush with MMA social media fans to see a MMA organization fold?

 

[AimedWithV]

Him and skylolow are doing a better job in this "debate" than you and that Rodney dude are...

@skylolow is an intelligent person and the conversation with him is on an entirely different level than "hurr durr this is stupid because this is stupid and they will fail", as @shinobimusashi

 

[shinobimusashi]

Sorry bubba I'm not really here to debate, just my opinion that the concept, name, and brand of PFL is retarded and I won't be surprised at all if it flops. I'm glad you like it and I'll be happy for you if they succeed.

 

[Eric O]

The PFL may not have the fan base yet but they are doing right by the fighters and the fans. You all should support them for that.

I work for the PFL. They're doing a second season. Tony Robbins, Kevin Hart and Mark Burnett along with a couple of other less well known professional sports team owning hundred millionaires are financing next years season.

I've worked for a bunch of different MMA promotions over the years including Strikeforce, the UFC, MFC, Glory and Bellator and the PFL is by far the most exciting to be a part of. On NYE we got to watch a handful of regular Joe MMA fighters become millionaires in the tournament finally. The owners of the event are at all the shows and there's a really create sense of community among the fighters and staff. It's totally the opposite of all of the other shows I've worked for. They also compensate the fighters well and all them to get multiple fights per season (sometimes 2 in 1 night).

I have 3 friends that fight for them. Each of them made more in 1 season than they had made over the course of their entire careers in Bellator or the UFC.

 

[Trojanlegal]

The PFL may not have the fan base yet but they are doing right by the fighters and the fans. You all should support them for that.

I work for the PFL. They're doing a second season. Tony Robbins, Kevin Hart and Mark Burnett along with a couple of other less well known professional sports team owning hundred millionaires are financing next years season.

I've worked for a bunch of different MMA promotions over the years including Strikeforce, the UFC, MFC, Glory and Bellator and the PFL is by far the most exciting to be a part of. On NYE we got to watch a handful of regular Joe MMA fighters become millionaires in the tournament finally. The owners of the event are at all the shows and there's a really create sense of community among the fighters and staff. It's totally the opposite of all of the other shows I've worked for. They also compensate the fighters well and all them to get multiple fights per season (sometimes 2 in 1 night).

I have 3 friends that fight for them. Each of them made more in 1 season than they had made over the course of their entire careers in Bellator or the UFC.

I’m happy you’re satisfied with the PFL and how they’re treating fighters but at a certain point the promotion has to make a profit. All of that money going to fighters is investment money—that supply is not endless. The celebrities and investors are expecting a large return on their investment. PFL is a very long way from achieving that basic rule of investment.

 

[AimedWithV]

I’m happy you’re satisfied with the PFL and how they’re treating fighters but at a certain point the promotion has to make a profit. All of that money going to fighters is investment money—that supply is not endless. The celebrities and investors are expecting a large return on their investment. PFL is a very long way from achieving that basic rule of investment.

Define a "very long way".
Because when a startup is invested, no one expects to receive immediate profits.

5-6 years is a normal time for an MMA promotion (and startups) to become profitable.

 

[Trojanlegal]

Define a "very long way".
Because when a startup is invested, no one expects to receive immediate profits.

5-6 years is a normal time for an MMA promotion (and startups) to become profitable.

Yes, I agree with you that it takes generally 5 years or so for any new business to mature before seeing substantial dividends. However, in Scott Harris’ August 2018 article
(https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...red-mma-league-taking-aim-at-the-ufc.amp.html) he acknowledges the large fighter purses is “a lot of money—unsustainable, even, for an upstart promotion.“ Further, as outlined in this December 2018 article in Forbes (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...pture-the-sports-450-million-global-fans/amp/) the PFL owners know live digital streaming, as well as securing a lucrative television deal, is critical to success. The question is can the PFL generate sufficient revenue from digital and broadcast to offset the fighter purses, production costs and other expenses to make a return on the investors money. I’m not rooting against the PFL, but it’s going to be interesting to see if they can overtake Bellator and become the second biggest US promotion.

 

[Eric O]

I’m happy you’re satisfied with the PFL and how they’re treating fighters but at a certain point the promotion has to make a profit. All of that money going to fighters is investment money—that supply is not endless. The celebrities and investors are expecting a large return on their investment. PFL is a very long way from achieving that basic rule of investment.

It took the UFC over 5 years before it even looked like running an MMA promotion could be made profitable. The PFL has been around for 10 months...

 

[AimedWithV]

Yes, I agree with you that it takes generally 5 years or so for any new business to mature before seeing substantial dividends. However, in Scott Harris’ August 2018 article
(https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...red-mma-league-taking-aim-at-the-ufc.amp.html) he acknowledges the large fighter purses is “a lot of money—unsustainable, even, for an upstart promotion.“ Further, as outlined in this December 2018 article in Forbes (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...pture-the-sports-450-million-global-fans/amp/) the PFL owners know live digital streaming, as well as securing a lucrative television deal, is critical to success. The question is can the PFL generate sufficient revenue from digital and broadcast to offset the fighter purses, production costs and other expenses to make a return on the investors money. I’m not rooting against the PFL, but it’s going to be interesting to see if they can overtake Bellator and become the second biggest US promotion.

Of course their success is based on future ratings, and much better ones. No doubt about it.
I believe that their plan is to mke the ratings go right up by showing the attractivity of their model to much more popular and ranked fighters than they have today. And I think these fighters started noticing.

In previous PFL related threads I've thrown some names that would've received much more in PFL than they receive today - by having huge chances to win GP.
Examples: Frankie Edgar, RDA, OSP, even Mousasi. All of these guys would've got more in PFL than they receive now in their respective orgs.
Now I don't know what the contract status of THESE specific fighters is - but you got my idea about the possible caliber.

I expect next season of PFL to be filled with much bigger names that they have today.
And adequate ratings.
IMPORTANT: The ratings will not jump through the roof immediately. It's still a long process. But progress is what is expected from them in 2019, I believe. Just progress.

 

[Vulcan]

but bro smart people invested millions

 

[Trojanlegal]

Of course their success is based on future ratings, and much better ones. No doubt about it.
I believe that their plan is to mke the ratings go right up by showing the attractivity of their model to much more popular and ranked fighters than they have today. And I think these fighters started noticing.

In previous PFL related threads I've thrown some names that would've received much more in PFL than they receive today - by having huge chances to win GP.
Examples: Frankie Edgar, RDA, OSP, even Mousasi. All of these guys would've got more in PFL than they receive now in their respective orgs.
Now I don't know what the contract status of THESE specific fighters is - but you got my idea about the possible caliber.

I expect next season of PFL to be filled with much bigger names that they have today.
And adequate ratings.
IMPORTANT: The ratings will not jump through the roof immediately. It's still a long process. But progress is what is expected from them in 2019, I believe. Just progress.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see now that the $1 million checks cleared for the 2018 season whether higher profile fighters will migrate to the PFL. If so, then ratings could be impacted on a positive note. The question is whether PFL champions will be snagged by the UFC. For example, Kayla Harrison could be picked up by the UFC after her 2019 season to fight Cyborg or Nunes. In fact, depending on how she structures a contract, she could make more in the UFC than the PFL even if she wins the $1 million in the 2019 playoff. (For example, if Kayla fights the standard three times per year between $250,000 to $500,000 a fight and receives PPV points on her fight with the 145 pound champion, then she will make more in the UFC than the PFL).

The jury is still out on whether a profit can be made with the new streaming platforms (i.e., DAZN, ESPN+, etc.) so I'm sure the PFL is trying to figure out a way to make money off that end.

 

[Trojanlegal]

It took the UFC over 5 years before it even looked like running an MMA promotion could be made profitable. The PFL has been around for 10 months...

I agree. I am just trying to remind everyone who are happy over the $1 million purses that the investor money will run out eventually. Even the UFC almost went under but for the success of The Ultimate Fighter. Again, I am not wishing for the PFL to fail. The more competition in the MMA industry is good for everyone.

 

[leto1776]

The PFL may not have the fan base yet but they are doing right by the fighters and the fans. You all should support them for that.

I work for the PFL. They're doing a second season. Tony Robbins, Kevin Hart and Mark Burnett along with a couple of other less well known professional sports team owning hundred millionaires are financing next years season.

I've worked for a bunch of different MMA promotions over the years including Strikeforce, the UFC, MFC, Glory and Bellator and the PFL is by far the most exciting to be a part of. On NYE we got to watch a handful of regular Joe MMA fighters become millionaires in the tournament finally. The owners of the event are at all the shows and there's a really create sense of community among the fighters and staff. It's totally the opposite of all of the other shows I've worked for. They also compensate the fighters well and all them to get multiple fights per season (sometimes 2 in 1 night).

I have 3 friends that fight for them. Each of them made more in 1 season than they had made over the course of their entire careers in Bellator or the UFC.

Care to comment on Abdelaziz-a-sleaze’s unusually chummy relationship with PFL, since he supposedly has no official position, yet his fighters appear to be overrepresented?

 

[europe1]

but bro smart people invested millions

This is like something out of a comedy movie. PFL's executive moves to Team Tennis<45>

 

[AimedWithV]

(For example, if Kayla fights the standard three times per year between $250,000 to $500,000 a fight and receives PPV points on her fight with the 145 pound champion, then she will make more in the UFC than the PFL).

Great example.
In order to lure Kayla Harrison out of PFL, they'll have to pay her UFC champion money.

Actually, not every UFC champion gets even that. You know who gets less? Amanda Nunes and Henry Cejudo

 

[Trojanlegal]

Great example.
In order to lure Kayla Harrison out of PFL, they'll have to pay her UFC champion money.

Actually, not every UFC champion gets even that. You know who gets less? Amanda Nunes and Henry Cejudo

Yep, that's what I'm saying. It would make no sense for Kayla to jump over to UFC if she is not making champions money (of course, if she wants to compete against better fighters then the UFC should be her top choice). If PFL still exists in 2-3 years and they decide to maintain the 155 pound division, then Kayla will be able to make $1 million a year or more. Nunes and Cejudo should be getting a raise.

 

[AimedWithV]

It would make no sense for Kayla to jump over to UFC if she is not making champions money (of course, if she wants to compete against better fighters then the UFC should be her top choice).

Well, first of all UFC won't pay her this money anyway.
They let go of 200K Alvarez, 300K Mousasi, to acquire Kayla Harrison for...double their worth?

Secondly, they don't even have any opponent for her.
No one promised she's able to make 145, and even in 145 they have like...3 fighters? Their 145 TUF winner already went down to BW LOL

Nunes and Cejudo should be getting a raise.

Cejudo might eventually get one, Nunes the PPV killer...ugh, she might get up to 400K maybe, just because she's "champ champ". Even that would be money waste from UFC perspective.

 

[Trojanlegal]

Well, first of all UFC won't pay her this money anyway.
They let go of 200K Alvarez, 300K Mousasi, to acquire Kayla Harrison for...double their worth?

Secondly, they don't even have any opponent for her.
No one promised she's able to make 145, and even in 145 they have like...3 fighters? Their 145 TUF winner already went down to BW LOL



Cejudo might eventually get one, Nunes the PPV killer...ugh, she might get up to 400K maybe, just because she's "champ champ". Even that would be money waste from UFC perspective.

The difference is that Alvarez and Mousasi are not PPV draws that could justify a higher purse (from the UFC perspective). The only time Alvarez was involved in a PPV as a main event that drew very well was UFC 205 with Conor--and we all know the high buyrate was due to Conor and not Alvarez. Kayla, on the other hand, paired with Cyborg or Nunes and with the promotional pull of ESPN could draw very well (not Jones level of 800,000-900,000 buys, but a solid 400,000-500,000 buys). Those numbers could justify a higher purse. In the ESPN era, UFC will be under pressure to deliver high-profile fights.

 

[AimedWithV]

The difference is that Alvarez and Mousasi are not PPV draws that could justify a higher purse (from the UFC perspective). The only time Alvarez was involved in a PPV as a main event that drew very well was UFC 205 with Conor--and we all know the high buyrate was due to Conor and not Alvarez. Kayla, on the other hand, paired with Cyborg or Nunes and with the promotional pull of ESPN could draw very well (not Jones level of 800,000-900,000 buys, but a solid 400,000-500,000 buys). Those numbers could justify a higher purse. In the ESPN era, UFC will be under pressure to deliver high-profile fights.

Agree about Mousasi and Alvarez, but Kayla will draw even less.
She was supposed to be an additional nice bonus on this finals card, and she did not bring any viewers. She's completely unknown to the casuals.

Cyborg herself is not much of a draw, her best numbers when she's not with other proven stars don't hit 300K.
Nunes is an opposite of a draw, she draws less than 100K. She's a disaster from UFC perspective, definitely.

So the fight of Kayla vs either of those does not promise good money to the UFC. Does not promise it at all.
Just out of speculations of coulda woulda shoulda UFC will never pay her a huge sum of money, and won't even bother with marketing. This is not what they do.