PFL doing worst than WSOF

[AimedWithV]

You're making wild, sweeping assumptions and that's not a very intellectual thing to do. Who's going to try and get out of their UFC contract to toss the dice on winning all of their fights in PFL for an entire season? Better the devil you know, and especially so when that devil is currently paying your bills.

I have no issue with an 11 year veteran retiring, but how does that do anything positive for the investors? If you read my post I was talking about the investors and how having them on board doesn't equate to a successful product. You jumping the gun and making wild assumptions, all the while referring to othes as idiots who "need to use some brains", doesn't really mean anything.

We'll see what happens but I'm skeptical of the PFL's business model because it appears as though they gained absolutely nothing from Season 1. They have ZERO stars to hype for next Season (at this time anyways), and again, they have almost zero brand recognition.

No, I'm not making "wild" assumptions, no matter how many times you write it in one pist to give it more weight .I'm making conclusions based on knowledge of MMA and common sense, whether you're able to comprehend it or not.

The "better the devil you know" DOES NOT fit here, and doesn't work in MMA at all. Especially considering the UFC, who not only give lesser salary, but also don't allow fighters to use sponsors - and fir high caliber fighters it's a game changer.

And PFL tourney is not a "toss up" for top fighters, at least for now.
Do you think Edgar has a chance of losing against Siler? OSP vs O'Connell? Mousasi vs Taylor? RDA vs Magomedkerimov? And guess what - ALL of these fighters get now less than 1M a year.
Plus , please go and check the way salaries between GP participants are given in PFL.
Educate yourself.

And don't worry - investors not only are able to understand what a knowledgeable fight fan can: they also can see a bigger picture, unlike you.
They do understand the real significance of O'Connell retiring and what it means, they're smarter than you.

Overall you're a great example of what will happen with WSOF on this model: ignorant fans like you will struggle to understand it at first.
Not to worry though, once they gain steam you will ride this train, probably even pretending to be there from the start.

 

[usmctanker242]

No, I'm not making "wild" assumptions, no matter how many times you write it in one pist to give it more weight .I'm making conclusions based on knowledge of MMA and common sense, whether you're able to comprehend it or not.

The "better the devil you know" DOES NOT fit here, and doesn't work in MMA at all. Especially considering the UFC, who not only give lesser salary, but also don't allow fighters to use sponsors - and fir high caliber fighters it's a game changer.

And PFL tourney is not a "toss up" for top fighters, at least for now.
Do you think Edgar has a chance of losing against Siler? OSP vs O'Connell? Mousasi vs Taylor? RDA vs Magomedkerimov? And guess what - ALL of these fighters get now less than 1M a year.
Plus , please go and check the way salaries between GP participants are given in PFL.
Educate yourself.

And don't worry - investors not only are able to understand what a knowledgeable fight fan can: they also can see a bigger picture, unlike you.
They do understand the real significance of O'Connell retiring and what it means, they're smarter than you.

Overall you're a great example of what will happen with WSOF on this model: ignorant fans like you will struggle to understand it at first.
Not to worry though, once they gain steam you will ride this train, probably even pretending to be there from the start.

Didn't GSP lose to Matt Serra once? Didn't Jon Jones lose to Matt Hamill? Didn't Keith Jardine lose to Houston Alexander? Didn't Cyborg lose to Nunes? Didn't Rousey lose to Holm? Crazy stuff happens all the time in MMA....figured you would have known that since you claim you know so much about MMA.

You're obviously smarter than everybody else so there's no point in discussing anything with you.

 

[AimedWithV]

Didn't GSP lose to Matt Serra once? Didn't Jon Jones lose to Matt Hamill? Didn't Keith Jardine lose to Houston Alexander? Didn't Cyborg lose to Nunes? Didn't Rousey lose to Holm? Crazy stuff happens all the time in MMA....figured you would have known that since you claim you know so much about MMA.

You're obviously smarter than everybody else so there's no point in discussing anything with you.

I'm smarter than you, and you just proved it again by referring just to one point, bringing examples half- relevant half-not and ignoring my advice to educate yourself about PFL GP participants' salaries.

I understand that it's easier now to criticize me than criticizing PFL, because I shoved the real facts about positivity and rationality of their model straight into your stupid face.
So, I forgive you.

 

[RODNEY83]

Very true. Big question here is what did PFL actually accomplish with Season 1? Truth be told they didn't make any "stars" at all and one of the winners decided to retire in the cage after winning his $1million. I don't know a single MMA fan (outside of Sherdog) who even knows that PFL exists, and this includes a few of my old Jarhead buddies who are doing amateur MMA fights.

Looks like PFL shelled out a ton of cash and really has nothing to show for it. Supposedly they did amazing ratings but that feels extremely suspect to me as I don't know of a single person who has watched it. I understand that's an anecdotal statement from me, but that's how I feel about it.

The PFL accomplished this, actually having a season one. Instead of sitting and talking about it and not actually having a season because of the usual whiny a_ _ MMA internet know it alls, the PFL owners actually put their money where their mouth is and actually put their product out their and actually had a season. Life is about taking risks and their owners took it. You don't like it, so be it. You don't think the PFL or One Championship, or Rizin is going to be in business long, so be it. At least they took a chance to try to put a entertaining MMA product out there for MMA fans.

 

[usmctanker242]

The PFL accomplished this, actually having a season one. Instead of sitting and talking about it and not actually having a season because of the usual whiny a_ _ MMA internet know it alls, the PFL owners actually put their money where their mouth is and actually put their product out their and actually had a season. Life is about taking risks and their owners took it. You don't like it, so be it. You don't think the PFL or One Championship, or Rizin is going to be in business long, so be it. At least they took a chance to try to put a entertaining MMA product out there for MMA fans.

I'm curious why PFL "defenders" are coming off as so aggressive. My post was fairly benign but everybody who responds to it is very aggressive and throwing out insults.

Sure, PFL exists and they completed an entire season. Problem is that nobody knows who they are, and they didn't create a single star or have any amazing "break-out" moments. Just for silliness look at Season 1 of TUF...didn't do very well even with the UFC name behind it, but the finale had an amazing fight between Griffin and Bonnar. That fight was a "break-out" type moment where it created two stars and got people talking. PFL had none of this and that's something that can't just be ignored. Even with the high dollar purses being handed out nobody seems interested in this brand / product.

 

[RODNEY83]

He’s the resident “anything but Bellator “ guy. He’s desperate to see anything do better than Bellator.

I don't like Scott Coker, but I want Bellator to succeed. That's a big difference. Look at the attempted squash match Coker tried to put together that was nixed by the Mohegan Athletic Commission, a 0-12 amateur fighter, Anastasia Bruce, vs Valerie Loureda. Only a slimeball promoter would even attempt to pull that kind of garbage off. Or Bobby Brents getting exactly one fight in Bellator on a 4 fight deal in a agreement Bellator had with Shamrock FC where any Shamrock FC Champion who defends their title at least once gets a 4 fight Bellator contract. Bellator even promoted this. So I want Bellator to succeed, I think Scott Coker is a mess.

 

[RODNEY83]

I'm curious why PFL "defenders" are coming off as so aggressive. My post was fairly benign but everybody who responds to it is very aggressive and throwing out insults.

Sure, PFL exists and they completed an entire season. Problem is that nobody knows who they are, and they didn't create a single star or have any amazing "break-out" moments. Just for silliness look at Season 1 of TUF...didn't do very well even with the UFC name behind it, but the finale had an amazing fight between Griffin and Bonnar. That fight was a "break-out" type moment where it created two stars and got people talking. PFL had none of this and that's something that can't just be ignored. Even with the high dollar purses being handed out nobody seems interested in this brand / product.

No one knew who da' f_ _k the NFL was when it started either. So spare me the usual social media negative drivel. If the PFL does not make it so f-ing what? If the PFL does make it, then it still will be the same ole same of negativity by so called MMA fans on social media. And I even included Rizin and One Championship in my previous reply to you not just the PFL.

 

[AimedWithV]

I'm curious why PFL "defenders" are coming off as so aggressive. My post was fairly benign but everybody who responds to it is very aggressive and throwing out insults.

Because every response to what you wrote has already been said. In this very thread, actually.

The problem with PFL "offenders" is that they do not READ, and judge something without understanding it.
You're a great example of it. Even though everything has been chewed out for you, you refuse to listen to the voice of reason and choose to close your ears instead, continuing with the same blabbering.

Of course in this case someone who does believe in PFL, and for the good reason, might get angry.
Me personally, I get angry from people's ignorance. Sorry.

Sure, PFL exists and they completed an entire season. Problem is that nobody knows who they are, and they didn't create a single star or have any amazing "break-out" moments. Just for silliness look at Season 1 of TUF...didn't do very well even with the UFC name behind it, but the finale had an amazing fight between Griffin and Bonnar. That fight was a "break-out" type moment where it created two stars and got people talking. PFL had none of this and that's something that can't just be ignored. Even with the high dollar purses being handed out nobody seems interested in this brand / product.

Here you go again. Same crap, like no one talked about it before - because you're able only to write, not to read.

PFL is a startup. A project with an idea. This is their first try, and it is designed to attract stars with the way I already chewed up to you earlier, and you had nothing to respond to it.
And then the brand will get recognition.

As of Griffin-Bonnar as being something necessary...really dude?
- How many YEARS has UFC existed before that? How many great fights it had?
- What was Pride's Bonnar-Griffin moment? Strikeforce's? Bellator's? Rizin's? ONE's?

 

[usmctanker242]

No one knew who da' f_ _k the NFL was when it started either. So spare me the usual social media negative drivel. If the PFL does not make it so f-ing what? If the PFL does make it, then it still will be the same ole same of negativity by so called MMA fans on social media. And I even included Rizin and One Championship in my previous reply to you not just the PFL.

I never mentioned Rizin or One Championship so there was no need to include them. It's funny how you talk about everybody else being negative, but it seems like you're the negative one. If you don't want to discuss PFL and some of its comings / goings then why bother addressing the issue on a forum?

 

[usmctanker242]

Because every response to what you wrote has already been said. In this very thread, actually.

The problem with PFL "offenders" is that they do not READ, and judge something without understanding it.
You're a great example of it. Even though everything has been chewed out for you, you refuse to listen to the voice of reason and choose to close your ears instead, continuing with the same blabbering.

Of course in this case someone who does believe in PFL, and for the good reason, might get angry.
Me personally, I get angry from people's ignorance. Sorry.



Here you go again. Same crap, like no one talked about it before - because you're able only to write, not to read.

PFL is a startup. A project with an idea. This is their first try, and it is designed to attract stars with the way I already chewed up to you earlier, and you had nothing to respond to it.
And then the brand will get recognition.

As of Griffin-Bonnar as being something necessary...really dude?
- How many YEARS has UFC existed before that? How many great fights it had?
- What was Pride's Bonnar-Griffin moment? Strikeforce's? Bellator's? Rizin's? ONE's?

Bro, you're smarter than everybody else, so why do keep on trying to bring yourself down to my incompetent level to have a chat?

 

[Kinger85]

350 tickets. Do you know what low level local shows I have gone to that sold more tickets than that???

 

[RODNEY83]

I never mentioned Rizin or One Championship so there was no need to include them. It's funny how you talk about everybody else being negative, but it seems like you're the negative one. If you don't want to discuss PFL and some of its comings / goings then why bother addressing the issue on a forum?

I actually did discuss the PFL. I actually have mentioned their owners by nane, the companies they successfully run and how it takes time to grow a company. Smart business people do make adjustments as they go along, the NFL did it, the NBA did it, the MLS is even doing it right in front of our eyes. They all grew their companies, but for some reason you MMA fans on a MMA site, are constantly negative with every MMA organization is going to fail not named the UFC. They aren't going to adapt, they are not going to grow their base, they can't keep doing this or that and blah blah blah. If it was 5 years in with the PFL, then I would understand, but the constant doom and gloom over a MMA organization from MMA social media fans is puzzling. But it's social media so that actually means be negative.

 

[skylolow]

I actually did discuss the PFL. I actually have mentioned their owners by nane, the companies they successfully run and how it takes time to grow a company. Smart business people do make adjustments as they go along, the NFL did it, the NBA did it, the MLS is even doing it right in front of our eyes. They all grew their companies, but for some reason you MMA fans on a MMA site, are constantly negative with every MMA organization is going to fail not named the UFC. They aren't going to adapt, they are not going to grow their base, they can't keep doing this or that and blah blah blah. If it was 5 years in with the PFL, then I would understand, but the constant doom and gloom over a MMA organization from MMA social media fans is puzzling. But it's social media so that actually means be negative.

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that smart business people are behind PFL's money. Nobody is saying they aren't trying. Nobody is saying they wish they'd fail. Nobody is saying they aren't going to evolve or change there business.

What people are saying is your two main forms of revenue, ticket sales and media deals(ratings) are just awful to the point you have to take a double look at it to see if you read that right. NBCsports deal was a one year deal and I have no ideal what the status is of that as of now. Outside of completing the season I'm not sure there is much more positives you can take away. It's the equivalent of creating a product and it just doesn't sell that well. Fine you can retool it or whatever and see what happens. Chances are it will fail again because the real problem is the consumer isn't supporting that product or form of it. Losing money is fine if you can point to great sales and you reinvested the money back into the business and so on. At least your showing a market for the product. The consumer this year for the PFL basically said, pass. I enjoyed it and watched just about every event and many times watched the Facebook portion. I think the concept is different and exciting for fans and fighters. But according to the numbers there isn't a lot of people feeling the same way. I hope they stick around and find some traction in the MMA landscape.

Why does discussing any of this have be categorized as doom and gloom??? It's just the information that is out there and people are commenting on it. You can't sit here and think the execs at PFL were excited or expecting any of those numbers. No doubt they expected to lose money. I'm will to guess they lost more than they thought they would based on some of the numbers floating around out there.

 

[RODNEY83]

I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that smart business people are behind PFL's money. Nobody is saying they aren't trying. Nobody is saying they wish they'd fail. Nobody is saying they aren't going to evolve or change there business.

What people are saying is your two main forms of revenue, ticket sales and media deals(ratings) are just awful to the point you have to take a double look at it to see if you read that right. NBCsports deal was a one year deal and I have no ideal what the status is of that as of now. Outside of completing the season I'm not sure there is much more positives you can take away. It's the equivalent of creating a product and it just doesn't sell that well. Fine you can retool it or whatever and see what happens. Chances are it will fail again because the real problem is the consumer isn't supporting that product or form of it. Losing money in fine if you can point to great sales and you reinvested the money back into the business and so on. At least your showing a market for the product. The consumer this year for the PFL basically said, pass. I enjoyed it and watched just about every event and many times watched the Facebook portion. I think the concept is different and exciting for fans and fighters. But according to the numbers there isn't a lot of people feeling the same way. I hope they stick around and find some traction in the MMA landscape.

Why does discussing any of this have be categorized as doom and gloom??? It's just the information that is out there and people are commenting on it. You can't sit here and think the execs at PFL were excited or expecting any of those numbers. No doubt they expected to lose money. But I'm will to guess they lost more than they thought they would based on some of the numbers floating around out there.

It was the first season of the PFL, just like the NFL had a first season at one point, just like the MLS had a first season at one point, their fans gave them time and grow with them. But MMA social media fans is everything is a failure or is going to be a failure right away and stick to that same ole rhetoric if the MMA organization is not named the UFC. And I keep pointing out the PFL is going to play out the way the PFL is going to play out, successful or failure. Time will tell, and I'm in no hurry to see a MMA promotion fail.

 

[shinobimusashi]

They changed brands but Pro Fighters League as a brand is just dead on arrival and the concept is brain dead fucking stupid, this was all doomed right from the start and will never make money.

 

[AimedWithV]

and the concept is brain dead fucking stupid

Great insight . I wonder if you have enough vocabulary to elaborate.

You and @usmctanker242 should combine your IQs...you'll easily get 3 digits!

 

[AimedWithV]

@skylolow of course there is no chance they can attract the consumer with what they have right now. They have to attract known fighters with their prices.
I personally will be very surprised if they won't achieve anyone significant this year. The opportunity pretty much lays on the floor to pick it.

As of investors, their money is already lost. It's lost regardless of PFL ratings.
They can just decide to call it quits, but then it will mean their money is in toilet guaranteed. I don't think they just fold it without giving PFL a chance to follow the plan....

 

[shinobimusashi]

Great insight . I wonder if you have enough vocabulary to elaborate.

You and @usmctanker242 should combine your IQs...you'll easily get 3 digits!

Not much to elaborate, the whole format was doomed to fail because it's a lame gimmick that isn't even remotely interesting or compelling. I mean I would love to see another MMA promotion rise up and catch on to make an impact on the sport but this Pro Fighters League horse shit was a fucking retarded idea that was destined to lose a lot of money.

 

[AimedWithV]

Not much to elaborate, the whole format was doomed to fail because it's a lame gimmick that isn't even remotely interesting or compelling. I mean I would love to see another MMA promotion rise up and catch on to make an impact on the sport but this Pro Fighters League horse shit was a fucking retarded idea that was destined to lose a lot of money.

In other words, "it's stupid because it's stupid".
Good luck in school debates, kid.

 

[Shadess]

Him and skylolow are doing a better job in this "debate" than you and that Rodney dude are...