PFL doing worst than WSOF

tithas said:
Could be but its a network show, not a UFC show. Network shows like that normally have very similar salary scales.
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You really think Gaethje's salary from TUF was as big as Conor's? I doubt that.

Anyway, I don't think it's a game changer honestly.
Even if this salary covered 1M, it's still 1M for two years of hard work, high level of competition and 2 concussions.
Could've done the same in PFL with less effort.
 
RODNEY83 said:
Those real numbers aren't worst than expected though. The PFL owners now have actual numbers of what they actually spent instead of what they actually over budgeted for. The PFL owners have actual numbers now of real income instead of estimates. The PFL owners have actual concrete things now that they can go to their investors and partners and sponsors with and all work together on how they can work to make their company successful for everyone involved. Those numbers aren't worse than expected because you don't know what the PFL owners expected. No one knows. Best scenarios when starting up a company is to budget to expect next to nothing income and to expect double of your output. That way there is no real shock value that causes panic and as a owner it helps everyone see things clearer and calmer and to go from there.
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You really thought they went into this season thinking they'd have shows sell 350 tickets????

You really think they thought 100K to 150K weekly viewers is are target???

I highly doubt they expected anything this low on both points.
 
skylolow said:
You really thought they went into this season thinking they'd have shows sell 350 tickets????

You really think they thought 100K to 150K weekly viewers is are target???

I highly doubt they expected anything this low on both points.
Click to expand...

They should've. They saw last failures of WSOF shows, and they understood that with rebranding and loss of meaningful champions it'll only go down.
They're far from being dumb.
I think they are aware very well that they're starting from the bottom. No matter how low. Not that it matters anyway, as it would've paid off only with significantly higher numbers.

Their model is aimed to the future. Even the close one. 2019 , without any doubt, will bring them fighters both higher ranked and more popular.
UFC champions' salary is attraction good enough for anybody.
 
skylolow said:
You really thought they went into this season thinking they'd have shows sell 350 tickets????

You really think they thought 100K to 150K weekly viewers is are target???

I highly doubt they expected anything this low on both points.
Click to expand...
Any smart business general rule is to expect the worse possible income while making their business budget cost much higher than expected. But I tend to forget, I'm on a MMA site, where the people on it actually hate MMA while claiming they love MMA and always commenting how much they know MMA business better than the business people running that business. I forget how many business people who are actively billionaires and are actively running successful companies making millions are on this site.
 
Their format is stupid. The coin flip winners on the draw matches are stupid. Fighting every two months is stupid. Having a 'playoff' is stupid.

This isn't football.
 
With that little in ticket sales, how do they afford to even pay for one fight?
 
That's a shame.
I hope they get better results in 2019. I really like the competition format and so do the fighters. You win - you advance to the finals. Fair play. No need to trash talk and make a monkey out of yourself. Proper sport, not some UFC circus.
 
mallen7272 said:
With that little in ticket sales, how do they afford to even pay for one fight?
Click to expand...

Huge investments from multiple very known and successful enterpreneurs (google the list), that believe in their idea.
 
RODNEY83 said:
Any smart business general rule is to expect the worse possible income while making their business budget cost much higher than expected. But I tend to forget, I'm on a MMA site, where the people on it actually hate MMA while claiming they love MMA and always commenting how much they know MMA business better than the business people running that business. I forget how many business people who are actively billionaires and are actively running successful companies making millions are on this site.
Click to expand...

I personally own a business that does well over a million in revenue annually for decades and is very profitable. I get how business works.

But your dreaming if you think people develop business plans basically accounting for the worse case scenario. No one and I mean no one would invest in that with out one hell of a upside or very hot business at the moment and the history of MMA has proving time and time again that is a very very very long shot. Now you may account that its almost certain you'll lose money and it could be for the first "x" amount of years. But eventually your business plan better explain how your going to make money and this is the path.

Like I said before, I highly doubt the people in charge ever thought they'd sell only 300 some tickets at some shows. If they even thought that for one minute they won't be booking 5000+ capacity venues and blowing money that route. Ratings I'm damn sure they thought they would've built some momentum through the season and not just stay flat.
 
AimedWithV said:
They should've. They saw last failures of WSOF shows, and they understood that with rebranding and loss of meaningful champions it'll only go down.
They're far from being dumb.
I think they are aware very well that they're starting from the bottom. No matter how low. Not that it matters anyway, as it would've paid off only with significantly higher numbers.

Their model is aimed to the future. Even the close one. 2019 , without any doubt, will bring them fighters both higher ranked and more popular.
UFC champions' salary is attraction good enough for anybody.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt everyone knew they would lose money based on what they were trying to do, we all understand that.

In these business plans like this the question then becomes how can we minimize the loses as much as possible not just sit back and hope we don't get the lowest numbers ever to set the basement numbers and if we do fail miserably, oh well, we planned on losing money. That isn't the answer any investor is looking for or will stand for.

I don't care what anyone says, there is no way in hell PFL with the media deals they have, investors behind them, fighters they have, etc etc. that they ever thought they would be dealing with ticket sales in the 300-400 range especially in the later part of the tournament. You know who worries about 300 tickets sold, your local promoter holding a MMA show at the fair grounds next Saturday night.

Plain and simple, 345 tickets sold is an embarrassment for any org that has what the PFL has. I know my local casino does better than that with nothing more than buying the rights to use KOTC name for an event. I know a local bar owner that worked with some promoter that held MMA events in the bar's indoor volleyball courts area that sold more than 345 tickets with amateur level MMA at best and those tickets were around $20 and table of 4 near the cage was like $50 a ticket with waitress service.


P.S.: The sad thing about 345 tickets sold is chances are very high a chunk of that is family members and friends of some of the fighters. So PFL shit the bed on promoting themselves and if I was investor I'd be making some calls about WTF is going on with my investment.
 
Some of those high level investors need to start calling in some favors and get these guys some exposure.

We did a few local MMA shows a few years ago, and we had a card full of nobodies.

Our worst card ticket sale-wise? 388
Our best? 793
 
skylolow said:
There is no doubt everyone knew they would lose money based on what they were trying to do, we all understand that.

In these business plans like this the question then becomes how can we minimize the loses as much as possible not just sit back and hope we don't get the lowest numbers ever to set the basement numbers and if we do fail miserably, oh well, we planned on losing money. That isn't the answer any investor is looking for or will stand for.

I don't care what anyone says, there is no way in hell PFL with the media deals they have, investors behind them, fighters they have, etc etc. that they ever thought they would be dealing with ticket sales in the 300-400 range especially in the later part of the tournament. You know who worries about 300 tickets sold, your local promoter holding a MMA show at the fair grounds next Saturday night.

Plain and simple, 345 tickets sold is an embarrassment for any org that has what the PFL has. I know my local casino does better than that with nothing more than buying the rights to use KOTC name for an event. I know a local bar owner that worked with some promoter that held MMA events in the bar's indoor volleyball courts area that sold more than 345 tickets with amateur level MMA at best and those tickets were around $20 and table of 4 near the cage was like $50 a ticket with waitress service.


P.S.: The sad thing about 345 tickets sold is chances are very high a chunk of that is family members and friends of some of the fighters. So PFL shit the bed on promoting themselves and if I was investor I'd be making some calls about WTF is going on with my investment.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think that in this point of PFL, investors are OK with seeing ANY results.
Losses are already been made. $18M, right? With that, the difference between 345 and 845 ticket sales is a drop in an ocean.
Investors already gave them their money. A lot of them. The dividends will not come this year, they're supposed to come in 5-6 years (seasons) from now, I assume - it's reasonable to ask from startup and from MMA org.
Now either investors continue with their plan - which is known to all and has a nice chance to be fruitful - or they cut the project and still are left with the money loss.

Let's see. There are so many big, known investors involved. If they decided to turn it off, we'll hear about it very very soon.
But I don't think they'll do it. They'll wait at least one year and will see the tendency...
 
skylolow said:
I personally own a business that does well over a million in revenue annually for decades and is very profitable. I get how business works.

But your dreaming if you think people develop business plans basically accounting for the worse case scenario. No one and I mean no one would invest in that with out one hell of a upside or very hot business at the moment and the history of MMA has proving time and time again that is a very very very long shot. Now you may account that its almost certain you'll lose money and it could be for the first "x" amount of years. But eventually your business plan better explain how your going to make money and this is the path.

Like I said before, I highly doubt the people in charge ever thought they'd sell only 300 some tickets at some shows. If they even thought that for one minute they won't be booking 5000+ capacity venues and blowing money that route. Ratings I'm damn sure they thought they would've built some momentum through the season and not just stay flat.
Click to expand...
I'm done. MMA internet social media fans will always be negative towards anything positive. If it was up to you people there would be no NFL because, well, you know, because they lost money when they first started and there is no way people would support it. Keep the negativity alive
 
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AimedWithV said:
Honestly, I think that in this point of PFL, investors are OK with seeing ANY results.
Losses are already been made. $18M, right? With that, the difference between 345 and 845 ticket sales is a drop in an ocean.
Investors already gave them their money. A lot of them. The dividends will not come this year, they're supposed to come in 5-6 years (seasons) from now, I assume - it's reasonable to ask from startup and from MMA org.
Now either investors continue with their plan - which is known to all and has a nice chance to be fruitful - or they cut the project and still are left with the money loss.

Let's see. There are so many big, known investors involved. If they decided to turn it off, we'll hear about it very very soon.
But I don't think they'll do it. They'll wait at least one year and will see the tendency...
Click to expand...

I feel pretty confident season 2 will take place. Third season I think really hinges on season 2 unless they have the investor money to run 3 full seasons with little to worry about.

They surely can't do any worse numbers in season 2. Increasing paid attendance is fairly easily to do overall. But like you said that isn't were they make there main money from. TV viewership is the number one thing they need to put a lot of resources into in getting the numbers up. Because season 1 they didn't even seem to attract UFC or Bellator fan to the product. Better ratings is the only way they can ever cash in on a better media deal. You'd think with the investors they involved they could pull some strings and get some great exposure going for the product.
 
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