Pescetarianism

[Mooney]

Both have been scientifically proven. How do you not agree with it? I'm not asking why you don't eat meat, the health risks of biomagnification are relatively low, and it's easy to ignore the environment, but why is it hard to believe that meat might be damaging in some respects?

No they havnt, any study i have read has been extremely biased, and/or innacurate. I don't agree with some of the meat that enters the food chain, infested with antibiotics, hormones and other nasty things, but that isnt a problem here in Ireland, and I don't know much about the meat industry in USA but from what I've heard most people who are clued into this sort of thing usually buy grass-fed, organic meat. I'm not saying meat cant be damaging in some respect, I just dont agree with people not eating meat for either of those reasons, because (1) It doesnt solve the problem, and (2) There are (in my opinion) better ways of avoiding each by choosing meat carefully.

 

[NickNack]

Seems like you haven't read many studies on the subject. If you want I can PM you some. I'm not saying no one should eat meat, and yes grass-fed beef is a safer alternative for the environment, however we don't have enough land to support a grass-fed substitution for all the meat that is eaten, especially in America. So unfortunately, people are going to have to eat less meat. And if more people become vegetarians, it's more meat for you.

 

[lakergirl52]

I could spend all day justifying not eating meat. From the terrible impact on the environment to the health risks with meat in the food chain. However, the one thing that I have found is most people don't care where their food comes from so why bother telling people, they resent it a lot being told something they don't care about.

Also, when you say your a Vegan for example to strangers, they think your some tree hugging hippie that wears a lot of hemp and chants around camp fires in Goa.

I'm just careful about where my food comes from. I'm not a full blown vegetarian, but where I'm at organic (and antibotic free, grass fed) chicken breast at the grocery store are like 6-8 bucks a pound and I don't want to spend that money on it. I really don't like fish, so thus, I'm pretty much on a vegetarian diet. I get everything I can from a farmer's markets and the rest from a grocery store that doesn't contain GMOs. I'm not paranoid (for the most part ), but I don't like the idea of my food being messed with. I eat yogurt and drink organic milk (prefer the taste) for protein.

 

[immovablestone]

we don't have enough land to support a grass-fed substitution for all the meat that is eaten, especially in America. So unfortunately, people are going to have to eat less meat.

I hate this perspective so much it's barely expressible with words. Studies "proving" how you couldn't feed every man, woman, and child on the planet grass fed beef for breakfast, lunch, and dinner are huge cop outs and (in any that I've ever seen) they completely ignore the bigger picture. Instead of using time and energy focusing on more efficient means of cultivation, the full breadth of animal protein sources available, and what is actually healthiest for the human body, it's used to harp on a spun statistic in order to push a fucking agenda.

It's awful that there are so many people with minds so open that their brains fell out...

 

[NickNack]

I hate this perspective so much it's barely expressible with words. Studies "proving" how you couldn't feed every man, woman, and child on the planet grass fed beef for breakfast, lunch, and dinner are huge cop outs and (in any that I've ever seen) they completely ignore the bigger picture. Instead of using time and energy focusing on more efficient means of cultivation, the full breadth of animal protein sources available, and what is actually healthiest for the human body, it's used to harp on a spun statistic in order to push a fucking agenda.

It's awful that there are so many people with minds so open that their brains fell out...

We don't have enough land in America to support free-ranging all the cattle we raise in America, when did I say anything about the entire world and eating beef at every meal?

Your assertion that "my brain has fallen out" does nothing for your point.

 

[Loomy]

What do you guys here think about pescetarianism? I don't mean to start the flame war that normally happens when vegetarianism is brought up, so please try and keep the bickering to a minimum.

I've found that the consensus of this forum is that a healthy balanced diet including meat is better than a healthy vegetarian diet. However, what do you D/S guys think about a pescetarian diet (no meat except fish)? In the past I've read that a pescetarian diet is healthier than both a vegetarian diet and a diet with other meats in it, but there's a lot of things I read before lurking these forums that you guys have debunked.

what I think is that fish are polluted enough that any diet including them should make a point of not eating too much fish. pick a country or state or province, you'll find it has recommendations to limit fish consumption.

fish were great for thousands of years. right up until it became normal to dump shit into the water.

 

[Ethelfrith]

Seems like you haven't read many studies on the subject. If you want I can PM you some. I'm not saying no one should eat meat, and yes grass-fed beef is a safer alternative for the environment, however we don't have enough land to support a grass-fed substitution for all the meat that is eaten, especially in America. So unfortunately, people are going to have to eat less meat. And if more people become vegetarians, it's more meat for you.

In terms of equivalent calories, feeding people on a diet consisting purely of grass fed beef, would take up more or less the same amount of land as feeding people on a diet consisting purely of corn. The beef would use slightly less water as well.

The problem is one of overpopulation, regardless of what you're eating.

 

[NickNack]

Most people argue for grain rather than corn as the alternative to beef.

 

[Henry Swanson]

I once had a guy tell me "I'm pretty much a vegetarian, I don't eat any meat except for fish, chicken and pork." LOL

 

[Prokofievian]

Most people argue for grain rather than corn as the alternative to beef.

This also makes little sense. For one, corn is grain. Secondly, corn is the most efficient way of producing calories from farmland. One kernel of number 2 field corn should yield 200 to 300 kernels in turn, whereas with wheat, for example, you're looking at 50:1 tops. So growing wheat may actually in turn require more resources than corn to feed the same population.

And as for your assertion that raising beef is damaging to the environment, you should specify the farming practices which you attack, as farming grassfed-pastured beef in southern alberta has about as much to do with 40,000 head industrial CAFO's in Kansas, as I have in common with a newt.

edit: also, corn is probably the most propped up crop in the United States, so any notion that any policies would be passed against it, when the U.S. tax payer pays out 19 billion per year to subsidize corn, is pretty laughable.

 

[SocraticMethod]

This also makes little sense. For one, corn is grain. Secondly, corn is the most efficient way of producing calories from farmland. One kernel of number 2 field corn should yield 200 to 300 kernels in turn, whereas with wheat, for example, you're looking at 50:1 tops. So growing wheat may actually in turn require more resources than corn to feed the same population.

And as for your assertion that raising beef is damaging to the environment, you should specify the farming practices which you attack, as farming grassfed-pastured beef in southern alberta has about as much to do with 40,000 head industrial CAFO's in Kansas, as I have in common with a newt.

edit: also, corn is probably the most propped up crop in the United States, so any notion that any policies would be passed against it, when the U.S. tax payer pays out 19 billion per year to subsidize corn, is pretty laughable.

Prok got better!

 

[NickNack]

This also makes little sense. For one, corn is grain. Secondly, corn is the most efficient way of producing calories from farmland. One kernel of number 2 field corn should yield 200 to 300 kernels in turn, whereas with wheat, for example, you're looking at 50:1 tops. So growing wheat may actually in turn require more resources than corn to feed the same population.

And as for your assertion that raising beef is damaging to the environment, you should specify the farming practices which you attack, as farming grassfed-pastured beef in southern alberta has about as much to do with 40,000 head industrial CAFO's in Kansas, as I have in common with a newt.

edit: also, corn is probably the most propped up crop in the United States, so any notion that any policies would be passed against it, when the U.S. tax payer pays out 19 billion per year to subsidize corn, is pretty laughable.

I did mention earlier that grass-fed beef is a safer alternative for the environment. However we don't have the land to free-range the amount of cattle we need to support our current meat consumption

You're right, I mixed up my wheat and corn, however you need to take into account the amount of grain we feed to the livestock, which can be used to feed people instead of cattle.

 

[immovablestone]

I did mention earlier that grass-fed beef is a safer alternative for the environment. However we don't have the land to free-range the amount of cattle we need to support our current meat consumption

You're right, I mixed up my wheat and corn, however you need to take into account the amount of grain we feed to the livestock, which can be used to feed people instead of cattle.

Grain is not food for people, it is a shitty food substitute for animals. Animals and their products, vegetables, and fruits are foods for people. The lands and waters can provide ample sources of this.

Your not-enough-space argument is crap, as a few tweaks to the modern 1st world lifestyle would change levels of consumption, and more time spent devising more efficient cultivation methods would increase yields, which are much healthier things to advocate than the vegetarian nonsense.

 

[NickNack]

Grain is not food for people, it is a shitty food substitute for animals. Animals and their products, vegetables, and fruits are foods for people. The lands and waters can provide ample sources of this.

Your not-enough-space argument is crap, as a few tweaks to the modern 1st world lifestyle would change levels of consumption, and more time spent devising more efficient cultivation methods would increase yields, which are much healthier things to advocate than the vegetarian nonsense.

Grain is people food; have you ever heard of wheat, corn, or rice?

First, as I stated earlier, I am not advocating that everyone become a vegetarian, I am simply saying that it would be better for the environment if people ate less meat. Can you be more specific in regard to these "tweaks" on the moden 1st world lifestyle.

In fact eventually we will all be meat eaters because meat will be grown like vegetables from undifferentiated cells.

 

[Prokofievian]

I did mention earlier that grass-fed beef is a safer alternative for the environment. However we don't have the land to free-range the amount of cattle we need to support our current meat consumption

You're right, I mixed up my wheat and corn, however you need to take into account the amount of grain we feed to the livestock, which can be used to feed people instead of cattle.

As ethelfrith said, the current level meat consumption itself is probably the problem, and no, not just because people are eating meat, it's because of what beef has become. What used to be an occaisional treat for most americans, unless you lived on a self sustaining farm, has become breakfast, lunch, and dinner fare.

As for the amount of grain being used to feed animals, being used to feed humans, that is, again, not entirely accurate. About 3 out of every 5 kernels of corn grown in america go to feeding the factory farm industry. However, almost every kernel of corn grown in america is number 2 field corn, which is barely edible by humans, and comes with it's own laundry list of environmental drawbacks. And no, these fields are not going to be subplanted by any other grain. These fields produce corn at a loss of about 80 cents per bushell, but the industry is still propped up by government subsidy payments designed to keep the flow of corn plentiful, and cheap.

 

[immovablestone]

Grain is people food; have you ever heard of wheat, corn, or rice?

Yeah, they're people food alright. Corn syrups extruded wheats are perfectly fine, lol.

 

[NickNack]

Yeah, they're people food alright. Corn syrups extruded wheats are perfectly fine, lol.

corn and whole wheat bread are.

 

[NickNack]

As ethelfrith said, the current level meat consumption itself is probably the problem, and no, not just because people are eating meat, it's because of what beef has become. What used to be an occaisional treat for most americans, unless you lived on a self sustaining farm, has become breakfast, lunch, and dinner fare.

As for the amount of grain being used to feed animals, being used to feed humans, that is, again, not entirely accurate. About 3 out of every 5 kernels of corn grown in america go to feeding the factory farm industry. However, almost every kernel of corn grown in america is number 2 field corn, which is barely edible by humans, and comes with it's own laundry list of environmental drawbacks. And no, these fields are not going to be subplanted by any other grain. These fields produce corn at a loss of about 80 cents per bushell, but the industry is still propped up by government subsidy payments designed to keep the flow of corn plentiful, and cheap.

This is exactly what I am arguing. Again, just because I chose to be a vegetarian does not mean I am expecting others to do the same, however in the interest of the environment a reduction in meat consumption may be necessary.

The reasaon the corn industry is propped up is partly because of the size of the meat industry, and wouldn't a possible reduction in meat production allow for the land to be subplanted by wheat or another grain that is more edible for humans?

 

[immovablestone]

corn and whole wheat bread are.

No, they are not.

 

[NickNack]

No, they are not.

Explain. Organic corn and whole wheat bread are not human food?