Social People in Western countries with strict gun control don't murder as much as Americans

[Cubo de Sangre]

Comparing the US to high income nations suggests money is more of a factor than legal firearms ownership, and it presumes wealth is somehow evenly distributed. If it's true that the gini coefficient is one of the best predictors of violence then it's not Europe that America should be compared to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

 

[NoDak]

Or, as @NoDak pointed out to me, North Dakota has a similar fund that instead of paying out directly to citizens funds their education giving the state like the third highest spending per student (behind only Democrat states like New York and Massachusetts). And yet both Alaska and North Dakota are Republican strongholds.

North Dakota actually has multiple, multi-billion dollar sovereign wealth and trust funds. The Legacy Fund is still an untapped minnow at $6 billion with no clear purpose; total deposits are up to $4.72 billion from oil and gas tax revenue with another $1.19 billion in conservative investment earnings.

There's been legislative proposals to use it in part to help fund public works projects and people often wonder about redistribution in the form of dividends. The state also receives royalties from energy development on public land that go into the separate Common Schools Trust Fund, which is now around $4.5 billion itself.

As it relates to the thread? The NoDak murder rate is 1.3 per 100,000 which is the second lowest in the country after New Hampshire. The purchase and possession of firearms doesn't even require so much as a registration, license or permit.

 

[Islam Imamate]

North Dakota actually has multiple, multi-billion dollar sovereign wealth and trust funds. The Legacy Fund is still an untapped minnow at $6 billion with no clear purpose; total deposits are up to $4.72 billion from oil and gas tax revenue with another $1.19 billion in conservative investment earnings.

There's been legislative proposals to use it in part to help fund public works projects and people often wonder about redistribution in the form of dividends. The state also receives royalties from energy development on public land that go into the separate Common Schools Trust Fund, which is now around $4.5 billion itself.

As it relates to the thread? The NoDak murder rate is 1.3 per 100,000 which is the second lowest in the country after New Hampshire. The purchase and possession of firearms doesn't even require so much as a registration, license or permit.

Its crazy to see how these GOP bastions have these fairly radical solutions. Having state owned funds like that is essentially socialism since its a publicly owned firm dedicated to providing social goods.

As far as their murder rate, I have to figure that's not unrelated to low population density. But going back to my earlier point about wealth inequality, North Dakota also ranks 16th in the country among states in terms of lowest gini coefficient and is lower than the national average. Here's how the states breakdown, the darker the green the higher the inequality.

And here are the states ranked by homicide rate

You can see there's some overlap between the two maps. I'm sure population density is another key factor as I said though.

 

[Higus]

Glad I could clear that up for you!

So do you think London would be safer if there were more guns in circulation? Like, A LOT more guns?

 

[Scerpi]

White areas in the US are EXTRMELY safe and comparable to a lot of Western nations. Demographics has exponentially more to do with homicides than availability of firearms.

They never want to bring demographics into the homicide rate discussion....

It's easier to generalize the US as a bunch of gun toting rednecks who do nothing but shoot each other. But reality is much different.

 

[therealdope]

tldr: while London's murder rate rose, it's total for 2018 was less than NYC's total from just January to June. And NYC is famously safe for a large city.

And I remember when NYC's number of murders was 2400 back in the mid-80s.

 

[misterfurious]

So then, what percentage of Americans would you say own guns, and why?

It’s hard to say for sure, but it’s certainly much higher than 25 percent. Where I live, it’s definitely well over 90%. The alderman in Chicago who just got arrested was vehemently anti-gun; they found 23 in his office.

 

[NoDak]

Its crazy to see how these GOP bastions have these fairly radical solutions. Having state owned funds like that is essentially socialism since its a publicly owned firm dedicated to providing social goods.

As far as their murder rate, I have to figure that's not unrelated to low population density. But going back to my earlier point about wealth inequality, North Dakota also ranks 16th in the country among states in terms of lowest gini coefficient and is lower than the national average. Here's how the states breakdown, the darker the green the higher the inequality.

And here are the states ranked by homicide rate

You can see there's some overlap between the two maps. I'm sure population density is another key factor as I said though.

And that's hardly the half of it, dude. I think I've mentioned to you before that it's also the only place in the country with a state-owned bank (established 1919) which has very successfully served the function of promoting the development of agriculture, commerce and industry within the state, particularly when it comes to extending credit to small and medium sized enterprises.

US News: North Dakota Provides Residents With Best Quality of Life

North Dakota's Norway Experiment: Can Humane Prisons Work In America?

Along the highways of North Dakota, drivers are greeted by billboards advising people to “Be Nice” or “Be Kind.” Fittingly, the state’s incarceration rate of 240 prisoners per 100,000 residents is among the lowest in America, where the national average is 670. (Norway’s rate is 75.) And North Dakota’s prison population of about 1,821 is less than half that of its neighbor to the south.

Progressive: The Refugees Of North Dakota

Here is someone with a cherished culture, homeland, and family—all violently torn apart by forces far outside of their control. These people deserve help, not only temporary refuge but the kind of support that will enable survivors to establish themselves as happy, productive members of a society. They need a new home. And in helping them find it, the people of North Dakota shine.

It also struck down capital punishment over 45 years ago.

 

[misterfurious]

Its crazy to see how these GOP bastions have these fairly radical solutions. Having state owned funds like that is essentially socialism since its a publicly owned firm dedicated to providing social goods.

As far as their murder rate, I have to figure that's not unrelated to low population density. But going back to my earlier point about wealth inequality, North Dakota also ranks 16th in the country among states in terms of lowest gini coefficient and is lower than the national average. Here's how the states breakdown, the darker the green the higher the inequality.

And here are the states ranked by homicide rate

You can see there's some overlap between the two maps. I'm sure population density is another key factor as I said though.

Population density may have a little to do with it, but as a North Dakota resident I’m here to tell you EVERYONE is armed. If you pulled out a gun and started shooting you’d have a lead storm coming back at you immediately.

 

[Kowboy Karl]

You may joke about it, but i seriously cant imagine what would Mexico be like if guns flooded the streets like America.

Mexico wouldn’t have any cartel killings probably

The innocent would be able to defend themselves

 

[Rod1]

Mexico wouldn’t have any cartel killings probably

The innocent would be able to defend themselves

Right, because you can clearly defend yourself against 5 guys with AKs as long as you have a revolver.

 

[Kowboy Karl]

Right, because you can clearly defend yourself against 5 guys with AKs as long as you have a revolver.

Actually if the community rises up and bands together it would be roughly 59 people with revolvers against the Ak

Those cowards would run

 

[Islam Imamate]

And that's hardly the half of it, dude. I think I've mentioned to you before that it's also the only place in the country with a state-owned bank (established 1919) which has very successfully served the function of promoting the development of agriculture, commerce and industry within the state, particularly when it comes to extending credit to small and medium sized enterprises.

US News: North Dakota Provides Residents With Best Quality of Life

North Dakota's Norway Experiment: Can Humane Prisons Work In America?

Along the highways of North Dakota, drivers are greeted by billboards advising people to “Be Nice” or “Be Kind.” Fittingly, the state’s incarceration rate of 240 prisoners per 100,000 residents is among the lowest in America, where the national average is 670. (Norway’s rate is 75.) And North Dakota’s prison population of about 1,821 is less than half that of its neighbor to the south.

Progressive: The Refugees Of North Dakota

Here is someone with a cherished culture, homeland, and family—all violently torn apart by forces far outside of their control. These people deserve help, not only temporary refuge but the kind of support that will enable survivors to establish themselves as happy, productive members of a society. They need a new home. And in helping them find it, the people of North Dakota shine.

It also struck down capital punishment over 45 years ago.

Oh yeah you did tell me about that, that's really awesome. Its stuff like this that really makes me get defensive when I see leftists shit on so called fly over states. I think there's a lot to learn from them and I also think they are a hidden gold mine of voters for the left if the left can get over its coastal elitism. That's why I prefer the likes of Bernie Sanders over Alexandria Ocasio Cortez as the face of the American left, I believe folks like him are much better poised to build a bridge between the coastal leftists and these constituents in the interior who I think can be open to some radical ideas so long as they are not maligned. I don't have a problem with AOC specifically but I see her as another example of the coastal and youth bias of the American left that hampers its ability to appeal to voters in places like North Dakota.

Population density may have a little to do with it, but as a North Dakota resident I’m here to tell you EVERYONE is armed. If you pulled out a gun and started shooting you’d have a lead storm coming back at you immediately.

I don't really believe that's the key factor for the reasons I've already articulated in a few posts in this thread. I fully believe that if North Dakotans were disarmed(not that I want them to be, I'm against gun control) they would still have more or less the same violent crime rate due to low population density and wealth inequality.

 

[NoDak]

Population density may have a little to do with it, but as a North Dakota resident I’m here to tell you EVERYONE is armed. If you pulled out a gun and started shooting you’d have a lead storm coming back at you immediately.

lol

And there hasn't been a "mass shooting" in over a quarter century.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Just saw that vid @NoDak, that's really cool. When it comes to agriculture I always felt that it would be nice to have the state incentivize small to medium scale family farming over allowing corporate domination and doing so through a state owned bank is exactly the kind of socialist shit I would love to have. I'm not that educated on farming but my gut tells me that the more alienated the owners are from the actual production and work, the more they will tolerate negative externalities like pollution, unethical treatment of animals, and worker exploitation.

 

[NoDak]

Just saw that vid @NoDak, that's really cool. When it comes to agriculture I always felt that it would be nice to have the state incentivize small to medium scale family farming over allowing corporate domination and doing so through a state owned bank is exactly the kind of socialist shit I would love to have. I'm not that educated on farming but my gut tells me that the more alienated the owners are from the actual production and work, the more they will tolerate negative externalities like pollution, unethical treatment of animals, and worker exploitation.

You should read the piece from progressive.org too.

Some of these "leftists" you're talking about don't have the first clue about 'fly over' (your head?) states or working class - yes, mostly white - people in the midwest and make all kinds of unfair stereotypes and assumptions. That's me, man. That's where I come from and those are my people, I damn well don't forget that no matter how much big city living full of sin I do now. There are definitely some bad eggs, but who doesn't have them?

Your ideas about engagement are great from a national perspective but North Dakotans are plenty happy being left alone and to themselves. People stare down their noses without the slightest clue about what the fuck is going on, NoDak is damn near running their own country up there and achieving an American progressive's wet dream without even breaking a sweat. Definitely worthy of a user handle IMO.

And we have nukes. Hah nah, but these are the active LGM-30 (Minuteman III) ICBM nuclear warhead silo sites though.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You should read the piece from progressive.org too.

Some of these "leftists" you're talking about don't have the first clue about 'fly over' (your head?) states or working class - yes, mostly white - people in the midwest and make all kinds of unfair stereotypes and assumptions. That's me, man. That's where I come from and those are my people, I damn well don't forget that no matter how much big city living full of sin I do now. There are definitely some bad eggs, but who doesn't have them?

Your ideas about engagement are great from a national perspective but North Dakotans are plenty happy being left alone and to themselves. People stare down their noses without the slightest clue about what the fuck is going on, NoDak is damn near running their own country up there and achieving an American progressive's wet dream without even breaking a sweat. Definitely worthy of a user handle IMO.

And we have nukes. Hah nah, but these are the active LGM-30 (Minuteman III) ICBM nuclear warhead silo sites though.

Was just going to say its like the progressive utopia that leftists never knew they wanted. I remember reading one of James C Scott's books where he made the point that the closest we've ever been to worker ownership of the means of production are small family owned farms and businesses and I think that's what we should encourage.

I understand the sentiment of being left to their own devices, its certainly worked thus far. I'm very willing to concede that there's a non-negligible possibility that such solutions work better at the state level and might not translate so well at the federal level. If so, I hope more states follow NoDak's lead while of course tailoring their solutions to their specific needs and resources.

 

[Whippy McGee]

 

[RoosterHucklebuck]

White areas in the US are EXTRMELY safe and comparable to a lot of Western nations. Demographics has exponentially more to do with homicides than availability of firearms.

 

[RoosterHucklebuck]

This is because criminals have nothing to fear since they know their victims cannot protect themselves.