Social People in Western countries with strict gun control don't murder as much as Americans

[My2Cents]

"Like" is not the same as "have no issue with". II don't see a metal object as scary. I see people as potential threats. That is from a long history of seeing people at their worst. What I don't want is someone's rights being violated (and yes I see firearm ownership as an extension of a natural right) on the off chance something might happen. With rights comes responsibility though. Anyone that wants to carry in a school should have extensive training, and as far as I have can tell no one is objecting to required training.

You are entitled to your opinion but having teenagers, who go through puberty and all ups and downs that come with that, carrying a gun seems like a terrible idea.

You say you have a long history of seeing people at their worst. Well I hear you and those people should not have the right to own a firearm at all imo.

You say people have the natural right to own one. Do you think all and everybody should have that right? Or can that right be taken away from you?

 

[My2Cents]

I’m sorry may I fetch you the low sodium organic variety of soy sauce to go with your fake sushi that you triple checked with the waiter that it contains no raw meat

No thanks and now go back to school son

 

[snugglecakes]

No thanks and now go back to school son

How bout an extra helping of soy milk with a side of a home evasion and then you suddenly regret every libtarded thing you’ve ever said and wish you had a firearm locked and loaded at your side. Afterwards i’d Be happy to give you a ride to school so you can regurgitate your political science professor’s latest rant.

 

[JJSBUR]

But but why not travel 150 years back in time and let everybody open carry like the wild Wild West..

An attacker can’t get them all at once... right ?and how much more exiting would some bullying or a simple school fight be???? In your logic schools would be the safest place on earth right

The wild west was not quite as wild as Hollywood depicts. In the west the carrying never actually ended and is some of the safest places you can be.

The biggest events of the old west after the Civil War was a short period of time of the raiders. Then there was the Indian wars which was very unfortunate since I have loads of native friends.

Then the gunslingers...the biggest event of that type in the old west was the OK Corral. A day in Chicago has it beat. There were not constant gunfights. The old west was mild except for a few isolated incidents after the Indian Wars. Bring back Wild West and it will be rather tame.

 

[exHeavyHippie]

You are entitled to your opinion but having teenagers, who go through puberty and all ups and downs that come with that, carrying a gun seems like a terrible idea.

You say you have a long history of seeing people at their worst. Well I hear you and those people should not have the right to own a firearm at all imo.

You say people have the natural right to own one. Do you think all and everybody should have that right? Or can that right be taken away from you?

Where are you getting that we support teenagers having guns?

the guy who allowed his friend to forcibly rape his wife had no gun. the many stabbings I have worked involved no gun. The beaten spouses rarely are beat with a firearm. You are fixated on an object that account for 15000 murders per year, in a country of over 300 million. another 15000 take their own life with guns. 30k total. Do you know how many opiate overdose deaths occur here in a year? 52,000. Motor vehicle crash deaths? 35,000.

Well, with due process I guess any right can be "taken away".

You think we "live in fear" because we wish to protect ourselves. Yet, firearms are used daily in defense of person and property, google defensive gun use, are thought to number in the hundreds of thousands if not, millions of uses per year.

 

[exHeavyHippie]

duplicate posting deleted

 

[exHeavyHippie]

Libtard confirmed. Don’t you have a rainbow gathering to attend? Are you sure about the ex part of your name?

and what brings you to the belief I am a "libtard". I have a pretty solid 10 year history of libertarian beliefs on this forum.

 

[scoopj]

If you think the Washington Post’s survey is worth half a shit, you are seriously naive. If some dipshit reporter calls me and asks if I own a gun I’m saying “Nope!”

So then, what percentage of Americans would you say own guns, and why?

 

[Victor Maitland]

London murder rate overtakes New York's
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43610936

April 2nd 2018.

what he said..
UK has the tightest weapon controls in the world. You even get asked for ID when you buy basic tools in home improvement stores..
yet we plagued by sky high knife crime , gun crime , acid attacks ,etc..

all comes down to the imported demographics and the fact that criminals dont respect any laws .

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Its not guns....its people. Americans are just more violent than Europeans. Its simple as that

Except when you guys riot appearently. When Americans riot it's like a pillow fight compared to when Europeans do it.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

White areas in the US are EXTRMELY safe and comparable to a lot of Western nations. Demographics has exponentially more to do with homicides than availability of firearms.

Are those other rates free of white stats also?

 

[spamking]

So tell me John Rambo, what would you have done to stop that truck?

Physical barriers to protect pedestrians in areas where parades or other open market areas are located would be a good starting place IMO.

 

[spamking]

Yeah, the murder rate difference between the US and other high income countries.

Yet homicide isn't even in the top ten for overall cause of death in the US . . . from 1999 to 2016 it's in the top 5 for ages 1-44, but doesn't crack the top ten for all ages.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Yet homicide isn't even in the top ten for overall cause of death in the US . . . from 1999 to 2016 it's in the top 5 for ages 1-44, but doesn't crack the top ten for all ages.

How is that relevant? The fact that people die non-violently means societies shouldn't try to reduce the number of violent deaths?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

I like how you throw the "high income" line to make your argument valid.

Why?

 

[nostradumbass]

No, you don't understand evolution like you don't understand much of what you talk about, yet you say nearly everything with confidence/certainty.

Oh boy, this should be entertaining. Maybe you could explain some possible traits that will be necessary to continue the species. We're out of the food chain, have heating and air conditioning, and plastic surgery for aesthetic flaws. You do know that even domestic dogs are bred for looks rather than function, right? Any changes will be out of convenience breeding and not out of genetic necessity.

 

[nostradumbass]

Some level of inequality is to be expected and accepted to be sure but I think we are past those levels at this point. Its hardly only myself or the left that feels this way, many ordinary working class Americans feel it too.

I don't agree with everything the left has offered on the matter(disagree with a federal $15 MW for instance) but its nonetheless true that its virtually only the left that admits its a problem and offers any solutions that would help. The right essentially doesn't even admit its a problem at all and generally agitates for policies that make it worse.

The right certainly doesn't make it a priority or say it explicitly, but getting a handle on unskilled and low wage immigration would automatically create more scarcity on unskilled labor and drive up the wages in addition to the policies on lowering costs for small or startup businesses. The ticket is to have more businesses and thus more employment opportunities and job choices. We all pretty much want the same things but disagree on how to get them.

 

[Rational Poster]

Your understanding of the American "old west" is obviously from movies. You might want to brush up on the murder rates from back then before making such stupid statements.

The per capita murder rate in Dodge City between 1850-1865 was 10x higher than Chicago's is today.

165 per 100,000 vs 15.65 per 100,000

 

[Deleted member 457759]

Misleading.

Take away the murders from 3-4 major cities and Americas murder rate isnt much different from other developed countries.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-vs-western-homicide-rates-2014-11

A trope from the pro-gun crowd is that if people want to commit murder, and guns they don't have easy access to guns, they'll just find other means. The fact that people in the US, where guns are so easy to obtain, murder at a much higher rate than high income countries with strict gun control, is strong evidence that pro-gun crowd's claim is bogus.

Guns make murder just about as easy as imaginable. A commonly used phrase to describe something very easy is "push of a button". All it takes to murder with a gun is a simple movement of the finger. There is extra effort involved in committing murder without a gun that militates against motivation.

I'd say London is blowing that theory out of the water.

Also isnt Brazil supposed to be a big boy on the economic food chain? Top 10 economy with strict gun laws and almost 6x the murder rate of the US.

 

[exHeavyHippie]

Bring back Wild West and it will be rather tame.

tame and much more racially diverse than anyone would ever imagine.

 

[snugglecakes]

and what brings you to the belief I am a "libtard". I have a pretty solid 10 year history of libertarian beliefs on this forum.

Preemptive Personal attack’s against somebody over a disagreement. Like beating up people cause they had a trump hat. That all belongs in the liberal domain but if yur not lib then I guess just yuh know... asshole would be the correct term, among others.

 

[Hard To Tell]

White areas in the US are EXTRMELY safe and comparable to a lot of Western nations. Demographics has exponentially more to do with homicides than availability of firearms.

Boom, narrative killed with just the third response. I notice the usual suspects have just completely ignored this post. We all know who and what the problem is but openly and honestly talking about it is another matter. Even black females commit murder at a higher rate than white males.

London murder rate overtakes New York's
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43610936

April 2nd 2018.

Which is directly related to this post. Who do we think it is who is committing most of these murders in London? We all know but no one in the mainstream (here in the UK at least) will come out and say it. It's the same everywhere.

 

[Rod1]

Brazil and Mexico are super safe thanks to their strict gun laws. Imagine if they had access to guns as easily as Americans do? They might turn into complete shitholes.

You may joke about it, but i seriously cant imagine what would Mexico be like if guns flooded the streets like America.

 

[Blowing Dixie]

White areas in the US are EXTRMELY safe and comparable to a lot of Western nations. Demographics has exponentially more to do with homicides than availability of firearms.

Look at some of the most gun liberal states there are, like North Dakota and Vermont, where you can carry concealed handguns and walk around open carrying fully automatic rifles. They have marginally more murders/capita than for example the Scandinavian countries where none of that is legal. Why? A population that has an average IQ of around 100.
Meanwhile the murder rate soars in multicultural cities filled with people with lower average IQ people, despite strict gun laws.
Stupid people do stupid shit and they do it regardless of gun laws.

 

[exHeavyHippie]

libtarded thing you’ve ever said

5 year old mentality confirmed.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I’m sorry may I fetch you the low sodium organic variety of soy sauce to go with your fake sushi that you triple checked with the waiter that it contains no raw meat

How bout an extra helping of soy milk with a side of a home evasion and then you suddenly regret every libtarded thing you’ve ever said and wish you had a firearm locked and loaded at your side

 

[Rod1]

The genetics aren't inferior guy. It's just a maladaptation to the environment they find themselves in. Superiority/ inferiority is meaningless in an evolutionary/biological context.

 

[nostradumbass]

It's true that we can engineer our own environments, but it goes both ways. We then have to adapt to the new engineered environment, and the evolutionary forces that have been around for the last million years may not be all that compatible. So the evolutionary path changes.

Like I said, my confidence in the statement was pretty low. Humans will change, but it's not survival of the fittest or traits surviving out of function. Human morality dictates that we protect those with flaws that would have been bred out of any other species. What i'm saying is that we're out of darwinian evolution and are now on convenience/aesthetic evolution, meaning the species is unlikely to develop new traits from random mutation.

 

[snugglecakes]

5 year old mentality confirmed.

Libtard confirmed. Don’t you have a rainbow gathering to attend? Are you sure about the ex part of your name?

 

[DespicablePeep]

I like how you throw the "high income" line to make your argument valid.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-vs-western-homicide-rates-2014-11

A trope from the pro-gun crowd is that if people want to commit murder, and guns they don't have easy access to guns, they'll just find other means. The fact that people in the US, where guns are so easy to obtain, murder at a much higher rate than high income countries with strict gun control, is strong evidence that pro-gun crowd's claim is bogus.

Guns make murder just about as easy as imaginable. A commonly used phrase to describe something very easy is "push of a button". All it takes to murder with a gun is a simple movement of the finger. There is extra effort involved in committing murder without a gun that militates against motivation.

 

[helltoupee]

Yeah. Is that reality uncomfortable for you? That different populations of people may be different in ways more significant than their skin tone?

Here we go again with the generalizations.

If we are judging people based on demographics, then I guess you must be a gun grabbing, anti-free speech socialist.

No because its not their society with their values with their culture, norms, etc. No one's inferior just because they don't belong you silly fuck.

So where do you belong? You want me to post the "cultures, norms, etc." of your voting demographic? Because I'm pretty sure they are what you would consider 'anti-gun'.

You can't continue to insist we speak in generalities about races and cultural groups, but then demand that you should be judged as an individual.

 

[Sketch]

This is brutal. @My2Cents has been getting destroyed page after page after page. I admire his confidence.

We are still waiting on the big one though, what time limit(s) should there be before a police response is deemed not fast enough and in his view is now appropriate to have a gun?

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Are you being serious? You're picking one of the most safe large cities in the US and comparing it to one of the most unsafe large cities in a high income country. Reminds me of the time some right winger tried to disprove global warming by showing that a single state's average temperature was decreasing. An outlier doesn't disprove a pattern. You're missing the forest for the trees.

No, you made a demonstrably false statement. I proved it wrong. You not liking this fact is irrelevant. You're missing the facts from your assertions.

 

[Falsedawn]

I would have no issue with guns in my son's school. He is 11. Who should have them? Anyone that is willing to take and pass training that includes shooting with multiple innocents present. When it comes to concealed or open carry, I really don't care. Law Enforcment walks around with their weapons on display all the time and no one blinks an eye. These are people that have a minimum requirement of shooting 50 rounds at a paper target once per year.

What you really should be asking me is what I think should be the regulations to carry in public at all. It's not what you think.

So less rounds than I put downrange in 10 mins on an average saturday? That's well trained?

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Oh look another thread where a leftist tells us all to give our guns to "literally Hitler".

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

So tell me John Rambo, what would you have done to stop that truck?

Aim a few inches higher. One of my Fathers good friends is a retired State Trooper. He said that the windshield of a vehicle will change the trajectory of the bullet a few inches down. Just FYI.

 

[Arashikage4Life]

I automatically know it's going to be a dumb post when I see this:

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

But don't try to pretend more guns means less gun crime, that goes against common sense

It goes against common sense that the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun, yet those are undisputable fact when one takes the time to actually measure it.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

No, you made a demonstrably false statement. I proved it wrong. You not liking this fact is irrelevant. You're missing the facts from your assertions.

I already asked you what false statement and you've yet to answer.

 

[Cyrano200]

When I was younger (much younger), I would constantly argue with a fellow sailor over gun control. We went round an round about types of guns used for hunting, police response times, and just throwing hands to settle disputes. Nothing he said ever changed my mind. Reading a few books did. First, I read the second amendment. It makes no mention of personal protection, hunting or crime. Second, I read books. No surprise for a sherdogger, I was fascinated by martial arts. I wondered why anyone would fight with a stick or a pitchfork and read about weapons. I read a fantasy novel about a medieval rebellion and that's when it clicked. When peasants who were not allowed to own swords had to fight the aristocracy in order to obtain / retain the basic requisites for survival had to fight fully armored and equipped soldiers, they had to improvise and suffer. All that other stuff is irrelevant, an armed populace is the only defense against oppression.

 

[Canada]

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-vs-western-homicide-rates-2014-11

A trope from the pro-gun crowd is that if people want to commit murder, and guns they don't have easy access to guns, they'll just find other means. The fact that people in the US, where guns are so easy to obtain, murder at a much higher rate than high income countries with strict gun control, is strong evidence that pro-gun crowd's claim is bogus.

Guns make murder just about as easy as imaginable. A commonly used phrase to describe something very easy is "push of a button". All it takes to murder with a gun is a simple movement of the finger. There is extra effort involved in committing murder without a gun that militates against motivation.

Not surprised.

I once asked a friend who lives in the US why an ordinary citizen should own a gun. He said that certain areas of the US are populated so sparsely that you need to own your own gun to defend yourself. Because police takes like forever to reach you.

Is that actually a thing?

 

[spamking]

How is that relevant? The fact that people die non-violently means societies shouldn't try to reduce the number of violent deaths?

Now I can actually type a reply. I couldn't earlier.

So, you ask how leading causes of death rates are relevant? Well, if you're after decreasing the number of deaths you kind of need to know what the leading causes are . . . no?

@sabretruth just letting you know there's actually a reply here now.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

When I was younger (much younger), I would constantly argue with a fellow sailor over gun control. We went round an round about types of guns used for hunting, police response times, and just throwing hands to settle disputes. Nothing he said ever changed my mind. Reading a few books did. First, I read the second amendment. It makes no mention of personal protection, hunting or crime. Second, I read books. No surprise for a sherdogger, I was fascinated by martial arts. I wondered why anyone would fight with a stick or a pitchfork and read about weapons. I read a fantasy novel about a medieval rebellion and that's when it clicked. When peasants who were not allowed to own swords had to fight the aristocracy in order to obtain / retain the basic requisites for survival had to fight fully armored and equipped soldiers, they had to improvise and suffer. All that other stuff is irrelevant, an armed populace is the only defense against oppression.

Funny how the high income countries with strict gun control don't have the prison industrial complex the US has.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The right certainly doesn't make it a priority or say it explicitly, but getting a handle on unskilled and low wage immigration would automatically create more scarcity on unskilled labor and drive up the wages in addition to the policies on lowering costs for small or startup businesses. The ticket is to have more businesses and thus more employment opportunities and job choices. We all pretty much want the same things but disagree on how to get them.

I'm not against all market solutions and I will concede that at times anti-poverty measures suggested by the left may sound nice but not work out so well in practice(like the federal $15 MW). But I still think its more so the left than the right that preoccupies itself with the issue and suggests solutions more likely to fix them then aggravate the problem. For instance I don't think Trump's tax bill is going to reduce wealth inequality, if anything it will likely only expand it.

But as I pointed out before there is a conservative argument for reducing wealth inequality and I'm sure some right wingers do care. Take Alaska for instance, it has a SWF that pays out over a grand to its citizens at the end of the year. Or, as @NoDak pointed out to me, North Dakota has a similar fund that instead of paying out directly to citizens funds their education giving the state like the third highest spending per student(barely behind only Democrat states like New York and Massachusetts). And yet both Alaska and North Dakota are Republican strongholds.