People don't tap to footlocks. Why did Boogeyman?

[asian-glow]

Whenever I roll with experienced guys, they don't seem to give a fuck about ankle locks. I have popped the ankles of 3 guys. Two of them have had their ankle popped so many times they told me that they just don't tap to footlocks. The third guy's foot was black and blue the next day but he didn't respect the footlock either. I myself have let my ankle pop because I'm stupid and it seems the quickest joint lock to heal from.

With that said, why did Boogeyman (Richie Martinez) tap to Craig Jones?

I would think that Boogey would be flexible enough to just grit through it. Was it from the pain?

 

[yetanother]

Are you doing your ankle locks in a modern way or an obsolete old school way? If you do one properly they should twist the foot and feel a lot like a toe hold. The Caio Terra foot lock also feels a bit different then other ankle locks, I see some people not tapping to it others feel it a lot and scream etc.

 

[tekkenfan]

if done right u can hurt the ankle bad even the knee gets torqued depends how its applied

 

[Solidus Snake]

Are you doing your ankle locks in a modern way or an obsolete old school way? If you do one properly they should twist the foot and feel a lot like a toe hold. The Caio Terra foot lock also feels a bit different then other ankle locks, I see some people not tapping to it others feel it a lot and scream etc.

Could you provide a video of what you consider a modern ankle lock?

 

[yetanother]

- by a guy who finishes high level dudes with ankle locks
There a lot of other different ways to do it. This one is a cool way of improving upon the regular ankle lock as there is little finesse in it

 

[Solidus Snake]

- by a guy who finishes high level dudes with ankle locks
There a lot of other different ways to do it. This one is a cool way of improving upon the regular ankle lock as there is little finesse in it

I've seen this video many times before.

Is it my misunderstanding, or the position he grabs the ankle with his forearm is different than what most do?

For example here:

it seems to me that Lister place his forearm much nearer the heel, which is what most people do, while at least my perception in the other video is that Panza grips almost mid ankle.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

Fools who boast "I don't take tap to footlocks" are just douchebags waiting for an injury. It's like those people who refuse to tap to a lower belt. These guys get physically injured to protect their precious egos.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

....why did Boogeyman (Richie Martinez) tap to Craig Jones?

I would think that Boogey would be flexible enough to just grit through it. Was it from the pain?

Because he isn't stupid, he doesn't want his foot broken, and Craig Jones is really good. Don't read too much into it.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I've seen this video many times before.

Is it my misunderstanding, or the position he grabs the ankle with his forearm is different than what most do?

For example here:

it seems to me that Lister place his forearm much nearer the heel, which is what most people do, while at least my perception in the other video is that Panza grips almost mid ankle.

I really dont like listers footlock, he grabs te foot as high as he can, panza goes low, and puts the pressure with the hips, I rather go low and put my hips on the footlock, if you go high as lister shows, you cant really get your hips in the mix

 

[mataleaos]

Boogey posted a pic of his foot after the match and it was like twice the size of a normal ankle.

I've been sidelined since early this fall with several torn ligaments in my foot from a straight foot lock. They're no joke and if done the legit way of doing them (rotating the foot and not just compressing the Achilles) it can blow your foot or ankle out really bad. There are so many ways to do straight foot locks. Some are fairly harmless and are more like pain compliance techniques and it ranges from that all the way to as bad if not worse than outside heel hooks.

A strong straight foot lock should feel like the foot is literally getting torn away from the leg at the ankle joint with a twist involved, and the ligaments in the foot themselves extend and tear which is what happened to me. Thankfully I didn't need surgery but I couldn't walk unassisted for close to two weeks and I can barely get on the mats to drill and flow roll now.

I've been training since 2006 and I've never had an injury worse than this. I've had an injury from an outside heel hook before and I think this is actually worse than that was.

 

[lechien]

The ciao terra foot lock is nasty.

Also the techniques on how to finish a basic ankle locks have dramatically improved and I admit it really scary if you get someone that knows to apply the right techniques...

Well compare to ten years ago...when it was the dark ages and no one knew how to finish it that effectively.

 

[Dogstarman]

Whenever I roll with experienced guys, they don't seem to give a fuck about ankle locks. I have popped the ankles of 3 guys. Two of them have had their ankle popped so many times they told me that they just don't tap to footlocks. The third guy's foot was black and blue the next day but he didn't respect the footlock either. I myself have let my ankle pop because I'm stupid and it seems the quickest joint lock to heal from.

With that said, why did Boogeyman (Richie Martinez) tap to Craig Jones?

I would think that Boogey would be flexible enough to just grit through it. Was it from the pain?

If you do ankle locks correctly with the proper “bite” it can act almost like a toe hold or even a different type of heel hook. It’s both painful and can cause some serious injury. If you don’t have a proper “bite” then guys might just pull something instead of a proper break or tearing of the ligaments/muscle. Old school ankle locks didn’t “bite” properly and left a lot of room to just take some pain and fight out of it.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

A lot of guys who don't tap is pure hubris, I remember Cobrinha saying they don't bother him because everything is already torn. I wonder if Robson would want to take this back as he ages.

 

[nefti]

Ankle locks? No tap, foot lock? Tap. There is a difference. A foot lock feels like the bones in your feet are going to explode.

 

[Chandler sama]

A lot of people don't know how to do ankle locks properly, but when done correctly they cause a lot of damage and not just pain. The 2 black belts below are high level competitors who are fighting for money. Not only does he tap, but he appears to be injured. The ankle lock is no joke.



Another thing to keep in mind is some people won't tap to anything. I saw Gary Tonnen hit one of the Miyaos with an inside heel hook and he didn't tap. It clearly damaged his leg, but he just walked it off. The next week he came to a competition with his leg wrapped. Leandro Lo did the same thing when he fought Craig Jones. AJ Agazam, just toughed out a knee bar from Tonnen and it looked like his knee gave out when he tried to stand up during the match. Some people just don't care about their bodies. The Miyaos walk around like Zombies now and I'm guessing its from their refusal to tap to leg locks.

 

[yetanother]

Didn't Miyao get injured like a week after the Tonon fight when he almost had his foot bent up his ass? They always walked around strange and turn agile when they step on the mat. Stuff don't even notice leg locks that makes normal people scream so trying to be like them seems extremely stupid.

 

[Poochie]

A lot of people don't know how to do ankle locks properly, but when done correctly they cause a lot of damage and not just pain. The 2 black belts below are high level competitors who are fighting for money. Not only does he tap, but he appears to be injured. The ankle lock is no joke.

The people who know what they are doing are finishing straight ankle locks torquing the foot like toe holds and that is particularly the case with the belly down ankle lock.

 

[DatCutman]

I've heard a lot of high level guys talk about it. Tapping is, ultimately, a decision by your opponent. They are choosing to lose, rather than to face whatever injury is about to befall them. If the injury does not outweigh the cost of losing in their mind, they won't tap. Simple as that. In turn, you have to make sure that you are able to injure them sufficiently with your submission to render them worse off for the remainder of the fight.

Sometimes, ankle locks aren't enough. Hell, once, Xande let his knee pop to a heel hook, and then went on to win the fight on points. Limb submissions exist to break your opponent down to make them easier to beat, either on points, or with a choke.

That's why Cummings focuses not only on the heel hook, but the gnarliest ways to break with the heel hook. A broken ankle still allows the guy to play certain types of guards, stay on top, etc. Losing the ability to control what happens below the knee is pretty tough game plan wise.

 

[Fla graplr]

It sounds like in this situation it's not the footlock they dont respect, it's you they dont respect.

Look at riley bodycombs belly down ankle lock. I believe he calls it the tripod or something. This added pressure specifically to the femur will get the tap. I guarantee it.

 

[Dogstarman]

A lot of guys who don't tap is pure hubris, I remember Cobrinha saying they don't bother him because everything is already torn. I wonder if Robson would want to take this back as he ages.

With the right torque, you can break bones. DDS, Cummings and modern foot locks/heel hooks focus on the break. You can have no ligaments, but you still have bones that will reach a breaking point.