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Penn vs Edgar II (Spoiler)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Newcastle, Aug 28, 2010.

  1. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    Let's discuss this fight a bit. I don't know about you guys but how frustrating is it to watch BJ (now in 2 fights) refuse to take the fight to the ground and use his ground game? It seems like he has fallen so in love with his hands and looks to win the fight here. He was getting beaten badly in the stand-up tonight and waited way too long to take this fight to the ground. Do you think that he isn't training properly for this type of fight (cardio-wise)? Once he pushed the fight to the ground he looked completely gassed. I could be completely wrong here but it seems to me that he would be the superior fighter playing topside on the ground.
     
  2. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    He seems so confident in his hands that he assumes he's going to turn the fight around in one punch. His corner should've let him know that Frankie is too fast and almost impossible to land a clean shot on. Only way to win was on the ground.

    Bj's take downs are good and his top game is great. Unfortunately he likes to scrap. Hopefully he adjusts his game plan and worry about winning rounds and not just trying to punch people.

    I love that fighters try to be entertaining, but standing there like a punching bag isn't entertaining either.
     
  3. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    Totally agree and in addition......his corner telling him "you know what to do man!" WTF is that? He seriously needs a new camp if he wants to remain as one of the best, if not THE best 155 fighter in the world. What little advice I could hear from his corner was abysmal. This fight picked right up from the last one except BJ couldn't even land much with his counters. Edgar was in and out with a combination leaving BJ just missing with his counters. He looked incredibly slow and outclassed on the feet.
     
  4. _Tyler

    _Tyler Green Belt

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    We saw what happened in the last round when he got the takedown... He ended up on his back for the rest of the fight. He lost everywhere.
     
  5. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    ^^^^
    I'd say that's about right. Look at his corner, he had his two striking coaches in there with him.

    I think Edgar showed he's the superior fighter, but it would have been much more interesting if Penn had tried more takedowns early, and freaking showed up in shape (look at that belly, i thought we were done with that phase).

    It would have been a closer fight, certainly Penn would have had a better chance to win, but I think Edgar makes for a very tough matchup no matter how well Penn plays (constant movement to check his gas tank, great takedowns, good chin, always scrambling up off the ground...).

    Also, Penn just won't play an offense guard. He gets up and makes space. He may try a sweep. It seems almost silly that a guy with his flexibility won't try more submissions, they could lead to sweep opportunities/reversals if nothing else.
     
  6. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    That was an unlucky scramble and he was gassed well before the 5th round. I think his cardio was all wrong for the type of fight he needed against Edgar. I don't disagree that he lost everywhere, it was a dominant victory by Edgar but his game planning and in-fight adjustments need serious work.
     
  7. fighting.spirit

    fighting.spirit Yellow Belt

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    I honestly kind of saw this coming, but I just don't get it either. On the ground, even when Penn was on his back [in the first round], you could sense a kind of fear in Edgar's eyes. A kind of hesitation. It seemed obvious that this wasn't his favorite place to be. Especially not with the likes of BJ Penn. The way BJ controlled him, almost swept him. I just don't get it.

    And something else I don't understand. Is there some kind of bad blood between Penn and every submission but the RNC, or what? With the kind of flexibilty and control he has, I'm sure he could land some frikkin' crazy triangles/ armbars.

    Penn reminds me of Jake la Motta, in Raging Bull. If he gets something in his head, there's just no convincing him otherwise. I think that's why his corner speaks to him the way they do. There's no reason to tell him to take the fight to the ground. Could that be more obvious? They just try to wake him up.
     
  8. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    It's too late for Penn, I think. If there was a fight you would have thought he'd show up in shape for, and ready to use all his tools, it would be to take back his LW title. If he can't put it together in this fight, he never will.

    I'm not even saying Penn would have won, I think Edgar is a very bad match for him. However, it's just being silly to show up out of shape and only switch gameplans when you are already gassed and battered.
     
  9. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    He took Frankie down successfully a couple of times and had mount for a while. If he had done that in the first round this fight would have gone very differently.

    He also had a tight overhook from guard for a while, he had some very good chances to set up a triangle choke but he didn't even try for it.

    BJ has the better skills but had an inferior gameplan and is just too stubborn to change it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2010
  10. fighting.spirit

    fighting.spirit Yellow Belt

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    Well said.
     
  11. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    He's not going to get it. I think I can accept that now. Every fight will be box, box, box like a robot until desperation sets in and then he'll try takedowns. If he's on his back, he'll act like it's illegal to attempt submissions. This is the Penn way, I guess. He's a great fighter, but he only seems to have one way to his express his skills.
     
  12. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Yeah I think he's just too stubborn and set in his ways. I don't think a 155er will ever finish BJ Penn (Frankie couldn't finish him in ten rounds) but his style definitely leaves him susceptible to being outpointed.
     
  13. 206warrior

    206warrior Purple Belt

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    He isn't a good enough to striker to stand and bang with Edgar, but he is to stubborn to use his jiu jitsu, which he worked so hard to excel in. Interesting guy...
     
  14. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    He is good enough to "stand and bang" with Edgar, but his striking is not good enough to still win a round after getting taken down by Edgar.
     
  15. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Watching this fight at the bar with the Nova Uniao team was painful. Especially with this guy from jersey yelling "FUCK HAWAIIANS!" "BLOW JOB PENN!" while he was black out drunk. Tough night. Don't feel like analyzing the fight.
     
  16. TalkShowOnMute

    TalkShowOnMute dancingonthecorpsesashes

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    BJ Penn is an amazing fighter, always has been, always will be. But he loses heart quickly IMO. As soon as he feels things are turning against him he shuts down.

    Put a Clay Guida heart into BJ Penn's body and you have an unstoppable lightweight. His heart and dedication are his only downfalls it seems.
     
  17. Quoth

    Quoth Something Catchy..

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    his corner actually said "F*** his speed" and other such useless information. I couldnt believe some of the bad advice they were giving him.
     
  18. TalkShowOnMute

    TalkShowOnMute dancingonthecorpsesashes

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    Instead of advice about using leg kicks...or maybe stringing punches together in combinations instead of winging out one at a time...or to go for takedowns...they said stuff like..." He stole your belt!"
     
  19. STANDdaFUGGback**

    STANDdaFUGGback** White Belt

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    BJ Penn got exposed
    He's overrated, fat, and just plains sucks. Hope he retires and never shows his fat Cabbage Patch head ever again.

    There's a saying there's no shame in losing to, "blank". Well there is shame in losing to someone twice. Fuck that Penn suck ass.
     
  20. TalkShowOnMute

    TalkShowOnMute dancingonthecorpsesashes

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    Yeah....why don't you go back to the heavies dickweed. Fighter bashing of this sort is not particularly tolerated.

    What have you achieved in this sport that allows you to disregard BJ Penn?

    You will be banned soon enough I am sure. Take care sunshine! :)
     

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