PED's and GOAT Status

[SmoothPies]

How much weight do you place on PED infractions when it comes to GOAT rankings?

While Jones and Silva have the accomplishments and skills to be considered the GOAT (along with GSP, Fedor, and perhaps Khabib), it is hard to figure out where to put them. Jones specifically is pretty much flawless resume-wise apart from his PED violations.

Personally, I think Jones and Silva are in the top 5 of all time but I just can't put them in the top 3 with the PED blemishes

 

[Barteh]

Everybody is on steroids so I don't really care. I would actually prefer if USADA went away although I can understand the dangers when people are roided to the levels of Ubereem and TRTor.

 

[SpedDaddyV]

none at all. Because if you consider PEDs as an asterik, you are giving exemption to all the many many users who use (and continue to do so) who just haven't been caught. Why is that okay? Because they are better at gaming the system?

Otherwise you are just ignorant in believing that only people who have been caught have used PEDs

Jon Jones is the GOAT and all of you pussies will have to reconcile your feelings with that fact

 

[Mittens]

Get caught, out of running. Doesn't diminish their entertainment value and I make no moral judgements (until the "dickpill"/whatnot excuses), but for the vague status of "GOAT", permanent disqualification in my books.

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

A wins a win, no matter by a roid or a sarm

 

[Masturbin]

Ped is central for Gsp/Fedo fanboys because they know that on paper Jones resume is better than Gsp

 

[SpedDaddyV]

Ped is central for Gsp/Fedo fanboys because they know that on paper Jones resume is better than Gsp

and its fucking stupid because GSP didn't even have his run and left before USADA

all of these anti-PED idiots are basically saying as long as you did PEDs but didn't get caught, you can be considered the GOAT

 

[Ancient Warrior]

It’s true that everyone is bending the same rules but Jones has been given a free pass to piss hot whenever he feels like it and has been doing it a long time now.

I think everyone’s entitled to a screw up, but fighters like Jones and Lesnar make a mockery of the sport. Silva himself has hurt his standing somewhat but it’s not at the same level as a perpetual abuser who can’t even step in the cage without pulsing some kind of cocktail.

 

[Ancient Warrior]

and its fucking stupid because GSP didn't even have his run and left before USADA

all of these anti-PED idiots are basically saying as long as you did PEDs but didn't get caught, you can be considered the GOAT

At least the playing field was level back then.

This is a case of fighters being held to different standards.

 

[SpedDaddyV]

It’s true that everyone is bending the same rules but Jones has been given a free pass to piss hot whenever he feels like it and has been doing it a long time now.

I think everyone’s entitled to a screw up, but fighters like Jones and Lesnar make a mockery of the sport. Silva himself has hurt his standing somewhat but it’s not at the same level as a perpetual abuser who can’t even step in the cage without pulsing some kind of cocktail.

and guys like Israel Adesayna walking into the cage with a gyno titty caused by Anadrol and Dianabol isn't making a mockery of the sport? with his bullshit reason being he was smoking marijuana? When it also coincidentally happened before he fought a much larger Paulo Costa and was making a move up to LHW?

everyone uses. period. If you only hold those who get caught accountable then you are basically playing ignorant to everyone else

 

[SmoothPies]

and guys like Israel Adesayna walking into the cage with a gyno titty caused by Anadrol and Dianabol isn't making a mockery of the sport? with his bullshit reason being he was smoking marijuana? When it also coincidentally happened before he fought a much larger Paulo Costa and was making a move up to LHW?

everyone uses. period. If you only hold those who get caught accountable then you are basically playing ignorant to everyone else

Totally agree with you that there is probably a huge number of fighters that are using and just haven't been caught. But to operate under the assumption that EVERY fighter is using is just simply unfair and not true. You have to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

To clarify, PED violations don't stop me from being a fan of that fighter. I'm still a huge Anderson Silva fan, it's just hard to put him as the #1 GOAT

 

[Ancient Warrior]

and guys like Israel Adesayna walking into the cage with a gyno titty caused by Anadrol and Dianabol isn't making a mockery of the sport? with his bullshit reason being he was smoking marijuana? When it also coincidentally happened before he fought a much larger Paulo Costa and was making a move up to LHW?

everyone uses. period. If you only hold those who get caught accountable then you are basically playing ignorant to everyone else

Apples and oranges.

First of all Adesanya’s gyno could be from steroid abuse, but it’s nothing conclusive since he didn’t piss hot and there are sometimes other medical reasons involved which doesn’t necessarily mean he was cycling during a current testing cycle. You don’t do steroids and gyno pops out overnight. It doesn’t work like that.

And if it did happen from steroids …….he sure as hell didn’t pop for it. He’s on the same playing field as his competitors

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

and its fucking stupid because GSP didn't even have his run and left before USADA

all of these anti-PED idiots are basically saying as long as you did PEDs but didn't get caught, you can be considered the GOAT

It's just really debatable because we don't actually know, GSP is adamant he has never taken steroids which would make him GOAT imo, but we don't know for sure.

 

[King in the North]

Pretty much none because I’m not naive

 

[TRUS8888]

I put little to no weight on GOAT status.

I refuse to be taken for a fool by accepting that just because someone wasn't caught by USADA they were somehow clean their entire career.

I prefer to believe everyone is using something.

 

[Masturbin]

and its fucking stupid because GSP didn't even have his run and left before USADA

all of these anti-PED idiots are basically saying as long as you did PEDs but didn't get caught, you can be considered the GOAT

They get incredibly butthurt when you say that.

On a Usman vs Gsp goat thread I said Usman always fought under Usada when Gsp only fought once under Usada .

And so many people got mad at that simple fact

 

[taugrim]

How much weight do you place on PED infractions when it comes to GOAT rankings?

It matters.

Look at TRT Vitor vs normal hormone Vitor. Two totally different fighters.

Jones pissed hot multiple times. If the claim is everyone's using PEDs, Jones is using them more and closer to fight time than anyone else, which should confer an unfair advantage.

Also, other fighters got suspended for the same things that Jones was given a pass for. Pulsing, lulz.

Silva didn't piss hot until later in his career in 2015, which is when random testing started. It's hard to discern how long he was using, but given that there was no random testing before 2015 it's likely other fighters were using as well.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

None obviously since Goat Pierre wins every legit GOAT Poll on the net.

 

[AlanGregson]

Apples and oranges.

First of all Adesanya’s gyno could be from steroid abuse, but it’s nothing conclusive since he didn’t piss hot and there are sometimes other medical reasons involved which doesn’t necessarily mean he was cycling during a current testing cycle. You don’t do steroids and gyno pops out overnight. It doesn’t work like that.

And if it did happen from steroids …….he sure as hell didn’t pop for it. He’s on the same playing field as his competitors

I don't think you understand how fighters or athletes in general get away with ped use in the ufc or pro sports in general, if you're smart and stick to the basic cycles you're never gonna pop.
The basics being, a fast acting test base like test suspension or propionate, in and out of your system in hours or couple days depending which one you take and a small dose of growth hormone. These are bioidentical hormones meaning they are both naturally produced and found in the body, even with the top of the food chain USADA level testing its extremely difficult to see what's there naturally or what's put there exogenously.
Remember when cro cop admitted to taking GH because of an injury, well he never actually tested positive but got a suspension anyways due to telling on himself.
Pro sports is not clean, hasn't been for a long time.

 

[kekiss]

Well since basically all top dudes juices, it’s became they homework to pass a test, one way or in another. So if you can’t do that it means you either had bad doc or administered some of the good stuff yourself, you know, just for that extra push. If you can’t beat test, you can’t be GOAT in my eyes.