Pedro Sauer vs Lance Batchelor controversy?

[Esile]

I have seen the old school challenge fight between BJJ black belt Pedro Sauer and bodybluiler Lance Batchelor posted many times on the web, with people always automatically assuming that Pedro won, but it's really true?



Analyzing the thing more in depth I started to think that maybe the bodybuilder did not actually lose.
In a black belt article published in 1994 (soon after the fight) the bodybuilder claimed that he did not tap and he was in no danger when the referee (who was one of Pedro's student) stopped the match and arbitrary awarded the win to his teacher as soon as he had the opportunity (by saying that the bodybulder was about to have his arm broken without realizing it)

The referee is also the commentator of the video where he said that Lance tapped to the armbar, but he is clearly extremely biased and therefore unreliable (for example he kept saying that Pedro was in total control, totally ignoring that it was not true at all and that he constantly failed in keeping the bodybuilder on his back), and he was probably just as biased when refereeing.

Here you can read lance batchelor on black belt magazine (it's under "unbeteable system beaten")
https://books.google.com/books?id=7c8DAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&lr&rview=1&pg=PA8#v=onepage&q&f=false

This is pedro saued and his student's answers
https://books.google.com/books?id=EtIDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&lr&rview=1&pg=PA6#v=onepage&q&f=false

In this video Pedro Sauer talks about the fight and said that Lance after the fight comes to his gym, gets tapped plenty of times in a row and became a student.


However here Lance tells a completely different version




Since in the black belt magazine letters there were a lot of controversy about this match, if the rematch really happened and Lance got tooled to the point of becoming a BJJ student I think that Pedro would have immediately written it in the following articles to prove his and BJJ's superiority without a doubt, so the fact that he kept quiet make me think that he was flat out lying in the video.

Pedro and his student claiming that the victory was easy (when Pedro was cleary struggling), the suspicious editing of the video, Lance's claim that have been consistent through the years and Pedro really fishy claim about Lance becoming his student are all things that made me believe that Pedro is not being honest at all, and that the fight may have actually been prematurely stopped in order to avoid the embarassment of a potential loss againts ad untrained opponent.

Also pedro is close to the gracies, and it's well know that they have often twisted things and lied to fit their narrative and propaganda, so Pedro may have the same mentality.

With all of that being said I do not have a definite opinion, but I surely have many doubts.

What's your opinion on the matter?

 

[Os3y3ris]

Lol @ taking that long to sub a body builder in the first place.

 

[Smato_rules]

It’s funny that the gracies take pride in not tapping to arm locks and complaining when the ref stops it, like in Sakuraba vs Renzo, and I think Royler too? But also Helio being a savage and not tapping to kimura too. They should have let the guys arm break, but you can tell that the Armbar was tight as fuck, and Pedro is the man

 

[kenetics]

I have seen the old school challenge fight between BJJ black belt Pedro Sauer and bodybluiler Lance Batchelor posted many times on the web, with people always automatically assuming that Pedro won, but it's really true?



Analyzing the thing more in depth I started to think that maybe the bodybuilder did not actually lose.
In a black belt article published in 1994 (soon after the fight) the bodybuilder claimed that he did not tap and he was in no danger when the referee (who was one of Pedro's student) stopped the match and arbitrary awarded the win to his teacher as soon as he had the opportunity (by saying that the bodybulder was about to have his arm broken without realizing it)

The referee is also the commentator of the video where he said that Lance tapped to the armbar, but he is clearly extremely biased and therefore unreliable (for example he kept saying that Pedro was in total control, totally ignoring that it was not true at all and that he constantly failed in keeping the bodybuilder on his back), and he was probably just as biased when refereeing.

Here you can read lance batchelor on black belt magazine (it's under "unbeteable system beaten")
https://books.google.com/books?id=7c8DAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&lr&rview=1&pg=PA8#v=onepage&q&f=false

This is pedro saued and his student's answers
https://books.google.com/books?id=EtIDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA1&lr&rview=1&pg=PA6#v=onepage&q&f=false

In this video Pedro Sauer talks about the fight and said that Lance after the fight comes to his gym, gets tapped plenty of times in a row and became a student.


However here Lance tells a completely different version




Since in the black belt magazine letters there were a lot of controversy about this match, if the rematch really happened and Lance got tooled to the point of becoming a BJJ student I think that Pedro would have immediately written it in the following articles to prove his and BJJ's superiority without a doubt, so the fact that he kept quiet make me think that he was flat out lying in the video.

Pedro and his student claiming that the victory was easy (when Pedro was cleary struggling), the suspicious editing of the video, Lance's claim that have been consistent through the years and Pedro really fishy claim about Lance becoming his student are all things that made me believe that Pedro is not being honest at all, and that the fight may have actually been prematurely stopped in order to avoid the embarassment of a potential loss againts ad untrained opponent.

Also pedro is close to the gracies, and it's well know that they have often twisted things and lied to fit their narrative and propaganda, so Pedro may have the same mentality.

With all of that being said I do not have a definite opinion, but I surely have many doubts.

What's your opinion on the matter?

The armbar looked very tight. Probably would've broke it if it continued.

 

[Tebowned]

Eh he was roided and had a size advantage and barely did any damage early when he was likely the most dangerous.

 

[Esile]

The armbar looked very tight. Probably would've broke it if it continued.

What do you think about Pedro's claim of the bodybuilder becoming his student etc....in the recent interview instead? Do you think that he was lying?

 

[kenetics]

What do you think about Pedro's claim of the bodybuilder becoming his student etc....in the recent interview instead? Do you think that he was lying?

Ya. Pedro was most likely lying lol.

 

[Esile]

What do you think about Pedro's claim of the bodybuilder becoming his student etc....in the recent interview instead? Do you think that he was lying?

But why was he lying so blatantly lol?

 

[Os3y3ris]

But why was he lying so blatantly lol?

Dude, he could tell you that the sky was in fact a deep shade of green and people would pretend to believe it because he's a Brazilian. They lie all the time and Americans fall for it.

 

[Esile]

Dude, he could tell you that the sky was in fact a deep shade of green and people would pretend to believe it because he's a Brazilian. They lie all the time and Americans fall for it.

I'm lucky to be italian then

 

[Matsukaze]

my first day in bjj I was caught in an arm bar from guard. I didn't know anything about bjj or how to roll, tap etc. it was just straight to the deep end. I'm very thankful that the brown belt I rolled with didn't snap my arm and told me " maybe you should tap" Lol

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Lol at taking an untrained GUYS word when he (Lance) claims his arm wasn't about to be snapped off.

Also RIP Lance

 

[Esile]

my first day in bjj I was caught in an arm bar from guard. I didn't know anything about bjj or how to roll, tap etc. it was just straight to the deep end. I'm very thankful that the brown belt I rolled with didn't snap my arm and told me " maybe you should tap" Lol

It's surely possible that Pedro Sauer would have broken Lance's arm if he continued, but I would not take it for granted.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Dude, he could tell you that the sky was in fact a deep shade of green and people would pretend to believe it because he's a Brazilian. They lie all the time and Americans fall for it.

becauae he’s a Brazilian and all Brazilians lie? Jesus fucking Christ, Americans don’t lie? Russians don’t lie? Chinese don’t lie? Bro get help, you have came out of the grave, don’t go back there.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I think it was prematurely stopped, but it was deep, I could’ve seen the fight go for a few more secs just not to leave any doubts

edit: lance phantom tap to pedros leg, or may be that’s what Pedro thought seems like, I think Pedro let’s go the armlock before the fight was stopped, if the ref had not Intervine the fight was on again, and lance wasn’t making it easy to Pedro.

the bias commentary is disgusting.

 

[Os3y3ris]

becauae he’s a Brazilian and all Brazilians lie? Jesus fucking Christ, Americans don’t lie? Russians don’t lie? Chinese don’t lie? Bro get help, you have came out of the grave, don’t go back there.

Americans believe Brazilians sometimes when they shouldn't and behave with slavish devotion to them, in this community exclusively.

And lol at getting help. I've got plenty of help. My security team is active from Boston to Baltimore. Y'all still want that money?

FFS, the BJJ community is still stalking the Barber family. We stop fighting back when you stop stalking literally anyone. I just transferred a lot more money to security and cyber security, so I can kinda do what I want now.

 

[Os3y3ris]

becauae he’s a Brazilian and all Brazilians lie? Jesus fucking Christ, Americans don’t lie? Russians don’t lie? Chinese don’t lie? Bro get help, you have came out of the grave, don’t go back there.

And they don't put you in a grave when people slander you, libel you, falsely accuse you, and stalk your friends and family across several states. They put you in "The Whip" while they figure it out because interstate crime is a federal issue. If you in the whip, you may as well drive the whip, so help HAS arrived. Big BJJ Brazu is a plate homie.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

And they don't put you in a grave when people slander you, libel you, falsely accuse you, and stalk your friends and family across several states. They put you in "The Whip" while they figure it out because interstate crime is a federal issue. If you in the whip, you may as well drive the whip, so help HAS arrived. Big BJJ Brazu is a plate homie.

man I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole with the stuff you went through, but you fucking gave yourself a bb in a sport created by Brazilians who you dislike so much, so make sense dude,l.

 

[Os3y3ris]

man I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole with the stuff you went through, but you fucking gave yourself a bb in a sport created by Brazilians who you dislike so much, so make sense dude,l.

I never owed Carlos Gracie Jr 2000 dollars for anything and I'll literally shoot for MY 2,000 dollars (legal) if you want to get violent over it. This shit aint no negotiation . Legal . I don't owe the money. Never have. You have done interstate ethnic gangbanging. Ok, COOL. Black men are good at this. And we do a ton of time on strength irl on y'alls bogus stories. Walk into another black owned business and ask for money.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I never owed Carlos Gracie Jr 2000 dollars for anything and I'll literally shoot for MY 2,000 dollars (legal) if you want to get violent over it. This shit aint no negotiation . Legal . I don't owe the money. Never have. You have done interstate ethnic gangbanging. Ok, COOL. Black men are good at this. And we do a ton of time on strength irl on y'alls bogus stories. Walk into another black owned business and ask for money.

wut? I’ve done what? Dude if you don’t like the Brazilians don’t Fu king award yourself a bb in a sport created by them that’s simple...