Opinion Pat Tillman

[SamSchmidt]

This thread is fucking cancer, outside of the poster who served and I respect, although I do not completely agree with.

You guys think Tillman didn't realize his opportunity? He was going to be on a pro football team. He knew what kind of checks he was going to get. The guy was so affected by 9/11 he gave that up to serve his country. Yeah, he could have stayed and played football but is it so hard to believe all that money would actually mean less to him than going and serving in the military? Everyone thinks differently.

In this day and age, with this asswipe cynical generation of people who frown on patriotism, stories like Tillman's are criticized. I remember when it happened and how inspiring it was. More importantly, it was so relatable and understanding because everyone was so affected by 9/11. It truly is a shame he died. How he died and the government misusing his story was really a shame as well.

I talked to him about it man. I respect him a great deal. I just think he shouldn't have joined. Even if he got sidelined it was a pointless gesture. There was plenty of us to take his place. I just feel like if you were meant to do something else, do it. We had it covered

 

[SaiWa]

You guys think Tillman didn't realize his opportunity? He was going to be on a pro football team.

He played for the NFL (Cardinals) for several years...

 

[AlexDB9]

What purpose are they actually serving by sitting in that manhole tho? Sure, it's dangerous but so is professional wrestling. Its all part of the gig.

I can see where you are coming from but at the same time the same also applies to many other jobs that are not respected in the same way. Consider sewage and sanitation workers, their jobs are vital for the normal functioning of society. In fact indoor plumbing and waste management have done more to improve the lives of the average person than

I’m joking a bit of course, but I’ve always thought that dying in a foreign place alone (fighting for a war you might or might not agree with) for your country deserved some respect. I mean if we put aside the political aspect, futility, and frankly unwarranted actions.....there’s still the fact that I can’t knock it. I don’t know if I would/could walk the walk in their place

I don’t really mind the present romanticized idea of veterans when you contrast now to say the 60’s and 70’s when people spat on soldiers and called them baby killers

 

[SamSchmidt]

I would generally agree....but, as you know, this criticism doesn't apply to Tillman, since he re-enlisted after becoming a millionaire. For someone with little education, professional experience, or overall ability, the military is a great, great career opportunity, as it opens up a lot of doors and yields silly amounts of social prestige. But Tillman already had a million-dollar contract and lots of social prestige on account of being a professional athlete.



Of course many respect him more and rightfully so. I don't think he made the right choice, but he made it to serve a higher purpose than his own enrichment. By all accounts, Tillman was a extraordinary person.

Also, he was a liberal and, during his tour, became very critical of the legality of the war. I found that very surprising after the Republicans appropriated his story and made him into this right-wing uber-patriot-type.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/49ers/article/Pat-Tillman-s-family-clarifies-his-legacy-12235077.php
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/pat-tillman-nfl-protest-death-army-disgrace/

Interesting. He never conveyed any of that to me. I will keep reading up on this

You make great posts man. I just,wish you were on the side of the Saints instead of the Sinners

 

[Revolver]

I think anyone with legit options should never join the military. No point in putting your life on the line just so politicians can enrich themselves.

 

[TheGreatA]

I respect the guy because he joined out of a sense of duty, rather than being a mercenary like most American soldiers (those people I have zero respect for), and he obviously saw that the American population had been scammed into fighting that war (which means he wasn't stupid, just someone who had faith in his country, which he unfortunately should not have had).

A lot of people are betrayed by their faith, their sense of duty and their patriotism. But this does not mean that those things are terrible qualities to have. They might just be terrible qualities to have in America.

There's a reason why a lot of people like that are turned into Alex Jones types (or Noam Chomsky types if that makes you feel better), because they've been betrayed again and again by their country. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. the list goes on.

 

[SamSchmidt]

This always reminds me of the days.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I’m joking a bit of course, but I’ve always thought that dying in a foreign place alone (fighting for a war you might or might not agree with) for your country deserved some respect. I mean if we put aside the political aspect, futility, and frankly unwarranted actions.....there’s still the fact that I can’t knock it. I don’t know if I would/could walk the walk in their place

I don’t really mind the present romanticized idea of veterans when you contrast now to say the 60’s and 70’s when people spat on soldiers and called them baby killers

That's fair but like I said the same applies to garbage and sewage workers. Most people don't want those jobs and most people would certainly not want to die in an accident or develop a chronic illnesswhile working such a job and yet its a vital occupation that makes modern civilization possible.

 

[SamSchmidt]

I respect the guy because he joined out of a sense of duty, rather than being a mercenary like most American soldiers (those people I have zero respect for), and he obviously saw that the American population had been scammed into fighting that war (which means he wasn't stupid, just someone who had faith in his country, which he unfortunately should not have had).

A lot of people are betrayed by their faith, their sense of duty and their patriotism. But this does not mean that those things are terrible qualities to have. They might just be terrible qualities to have in America.

There's a reason why a lot of people like that are turned into Alex Jones types (or Noam Chomsky types if that makes you feel better), because they've been betrayed again and again by their country. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. the list goes on.

This post makes me want to join Blackwater.

They did offer me a job before they namechanged 50000 times. But they wanted me to defend debeers mines in Africa. Fuck all that noise.

But basically I'm telling you your post sucks.

 

[AlexDB9]

That's fair but like I said the same applies to garbage and sewage workers. Most people don't want those jobs and most people would certainly not want to die in an accident or develop a chronic illnesswhile working such a job and yet its a vital occupation that makes modern civilization possible.

That’s true, but at least sanitation workers (I used to watch dirty jobs on discovery haha) and wrestlers etc don’t have to worry about getting shot and IED’s

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Fuck all that shit. We went over there in the 10th crusade. It's time to put a stop to their Sharia. It's not even a feminist or a gay loving thing but if your down with them noosing women and men cuz they do something their religion doesn't like....there is,something wrong with you.

That's not true at all in the case of Iraq. Saddam was a dickhead but he was not a Sharia type, more of a conventional strongman military dude. One of the reasons for attacking Iraq is to help Saudi Arabia, an actual Sharia state.

 

[HereticBD]

You can't help but respect the balls and patriotism.

I don't know if I can respect the ultimate decision though. If he were alive, I think he'd be telling everyone his decision was short sighted, and that he got bamboozled by his own patriotism. As I remember it from the doc, his squad mates were saying he was pretty disillusioned at the whole mess the response to 9/11 turned into, and wasn't what he signed up for.

 

[vengeful]

What? How? My answer is this.

He said we went over to the middle east to terrorize that country, Iraq and Afghanistan I'm assuming.

One had a dickhead dictator we needed to oust since day 1. The other was a Harbor,for fucking cuck terrorists who want to kill nothing but women and children. Don't believe me? Look at these loons now.

I believe his question was about whether or not Middle Eastern countries should invade America to protect American Children from practices such as abortion, gender therapy and conversion because those are abhorrent practices....I didn't see an ans

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Hopefully nobody ever saw Full Metal Jacket and thought, "Man, I want to get wrapped up in those sorts of heroics!" If so, they likely entirely missed the point.

For sure... but people do.

 

[bowened]

Respecting people for joining the military is stupid as fuck.

It’s a job, a pretty good job even if you stick with it. Good insurance, salary that’s guaranteed to get larger as time goes on, benefits like fuck.

Yeah bro....I really respect you for taking a job....lol.

This is completely irrelevant and actually counter to Pat Tillman’s situation.

 

[TheGreatA]

This post makes me want to join Blackwater.

They did offer me a job before they namechanged 50000 times. But they wanted me to defend debeers mines in Africa. Fuck all that noise.

But basically I'm telling you your post sucks.

You're only proving me right if that post makes you want to join an infamous group such as the Blackwater.

The WW2 vets would've looked down in shame at those sorts of mercenaries.

 

[Confucamus]

I talked to him about it man. I respect him a great deal. I just think he shouldn't have joined. Even if he got sidelined it was a pointless gesture. There was plenty of us to take his place. I just feel like if you were meant to do something else, do it. We had it covered

Completely understand why you'd think that. George Foreman gave up boxing in his prime for 10 years to become a priest. He gave up vast sums of money for what he believed to be a higher purpose. Plenty of boxers who wish they had the physical gifts Foreman had must've looked at him the same way you describe Tillman. If someone feels they have a higher purpose, then money, opportunity, and fame actually doesn't mean as much anymore. Hard as it may be for you or me to understand choosing military over millions of dollars playing football. I get what you're saying, but some of the comments here were taking it a bit too far, IMO.

I think anyone with legit options should never join the military. No point in putting your life on the line just so politicians can enrich themselves.

If you don't think the military is a "legit option", then you have a very cynical and uneducated view on this, at best. The military is more than just some last resort for anybody who has subpar education and few other options in life. Plenty of people go to school for four years and join the military after. There are amazing and fulfilling careers to be had in the military, not everyone is some lowly grunt. There are doctors and scientists who have learned their skill in the military.

 

[Joe265]

So. I went to basic training with this guy. Infantry IBCT at Benning.

If you didn't know, he quit a contract with the Arizona Cardinals to go into the Army on some sort of patriotic kick after 9/11.

Now this may rub some of you the wrong way, especially vets, but I was a bit hard on him.

I told this guy, "Why man?" "Why quit a lucrative millions of dollars to defend your country when you don't need to?" "It's what us lowly fucks are for." "It's why we fight, so you can do that shit."

He says he wanted to after 9/11 because they attacked us and he wants to give to his country.

But it's like... he had no need to. At all. There was plenty of us who signed up afterwards. Now guess what, he's dead.

Do you respect him for this? Would you respect Brad Pitt more if he quit acting to join the Army?

I dunno,man. I just thought it was unnecessary. That he would do that when he has the possibility of being a millionaire.

Would I go the millionaire route instead of joining the Army? Fuck yes.

I dunno, does that make me shallow?

When you accept failure in life you start to put your dreams onto others, when they have a completely different journey and different values than you. It’s not that you’re shallow for choosing money, you’re shallow for trying to choose what’s best for another man, you’re shallow for abandoning your own dreams to play god in the lives of others. Patt Tillman never needed your shitty advice. You are the one that needs to listen to advice, not give it. And whether or not you or anyone else respected Pat Tillman for that decision never fucking mattered.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That’s true, but at least sanitation workers (I used to watch dirty jobs on discovery haha) and wrestlers etc don’t have to worry about getting shot and IED’s

Maybe not sanitation workers in particular but many blue collar jobs are incredibly dangerous statistically speaking, maybe even more so than being in the military depending on the occupation in question, and also critical to the functioning of a modern society and don't get even a fraction of the fellating that the military does in American society. I am not saying we should spit on soldiers but sometimes I gotta roll my eyes at the GI Joe worship in this country.

 

[D Train]

There a pretty good documentary on it. His family was pretty upset, abut how the government used his death.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/movies/20tillman.html

That’s true. I have a friend in his extended family and it’s still a touchy subject.