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Passing butterfly guard when the guy is on his back?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Tiger Balm, May 21, 2008.

  1. Tiger Balm

    Tiger Balm Purple Belt

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    I am talking about the passes which you do when the guy is on his back. I mean particulary the passes where you lift your hips up and put the weight on the guys hooks, negating the hooks. Not the ones which are done while hugging the legs on the ground.

    What's the basic way of holding your weight on top of him, how are the hands placed, do you need to use power or just dead weight laying over him, how to avoid the closed guard from here etc. Any input is appreciated.

    I heard Saulo showed some of these passes in freestyle revolution - passing the guard set.
     
  2. RetardControl

    RetardControl White Belt

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    I have two moves that I go to for this:

    1. Reach in between his thigh and his calf and grab his ankle on one side. Put pressure with your head down onto his stomach on the other side, also have your other arm on this side pinched in tight to his hips. I then flip over onto my feet, passing into side control with shoulder pressure down on his stomach in a kind of "crab" position. I then turn into him, pinching my knee tight to his hip and establishing side control.

    2. Bring your knees as close to his hips as possible, stuffing his hooks in. Bring your elbows to his sides and clamp them tight. Posture up, pinching his knees together with your elbows. Bring one knee into the middle of his hips and then sprawl your other leg back.

    If he doesn't follow you with his hook - pass.

    If he does follow you with his hook, grip your hands together around his legs. Sprawl your weight down and keeping your arms gripped under his legs, walk your body around on one leg and then pass.

    Might not be the best descriptions, but they do work for me in this position.
     
  3. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Once I have control of the legs I put my ear next to the side of their ribcage and jump to the opposite side. I use my weight on my shoulder as a base for when I jump. Its stable and makes it tough on my opponents breathing because my shoulder is driving into their diaphram.
     
  4. Tiger Balm

    Tiger Balm Purple Belt

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    I meant the passes from the tripod position, not from the ground.

    I like those passes as well though.
     
  5. JiuJitsu_Greg

    JiuJitsu_Greg Blue Belt

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    If the guy is trying to play a butterfly guard from his back you are already over half way passed. You want the guard player on his back as long as he doesn't have you wrapped up with under/over hooks you are fine here. You could do many kinds of passes from here, i.e. isolate a leg or knee in the middle pass etc etc etc. I think it is a bad habit for guys to try and play guard laying down on their back. The guard is most dangerous when you are sitting up and attacking. That is when you should have trouble passing someone's guard imo.
     
  6. Tiger Balm

    Tiger Balm Purple Belt

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    Yes I agree. I have been trying to force the guys on their back and force them to play butterfly guard from there. I have had success especially with isolating one leg and passing from there.

    I have done a lot of ground passes from there, but Im now trying to learn the tripod passes, as counter to him pushing or lifting with his hooks.
     
  7. JiuJitsu_Greg

    JiuJitsu_Greg Blue Belt

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    I like to personally approach a guy on their back with caution because we all know they want to wrap you up and more then likely try to sweep you. When a guy flops on his back I usually start standing and getting my hips forward and grabbing the guys ankles. from there I make sure the guy is flat on his back by leveraging his body with his legs. In gi i like to rock the guy back on his head enough to where I can get ahold of his belt then put my weight on his lower back area while holding the belt and then simply passing. I dunno but this pass is one of my favorite passes on those guys that live to play the guard.
     
  8. masada555

    masada555 Orange Belt

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    You said: "the passes where you lift your hips up and put the weight on the guys hooks..."

    Saulo does show some brilliant butterfly passes from the "tripod" position. However, he emphasizes that all of your weight needs to be on the guy's upper body -- NOT on his hooks.

    The passes are what I would call advanced because of the amount of sensitivity and hip movement involved. They would be very difficult to describe by words alone and honestly I don't remember the details too well.
     
  9. Tiger Balm

    Tiger Balm Purple Belt

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    Thanks for that correction! Im mostly interested in that positioning itself. I understand the passes are hard to describe, but if some of you have used this position, I would like to hear more about the positioning. Like how to use your legs, arms, weight etc.
     
  10. IronCage**

    IronCage** Banned Banned

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    Saulo's instructional has the same exact pass you are looking for. I has a lot to do with switching your hips in the right direction at the right time.
     
  11. Trickster***

    Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    I just made a new thread bc I am having a problem with someone passing my butterfly guard...I didnt see the thread so maybe we just merge the two bc they are very similar....

    Here is what I asked...

    I am getting my butterfly guard passed by this high purple belt ALL the time.....he does the pass where he keeps his elbows down, head to one side, and does a head/handstand jumping over my legs to one side and ending on perfectly in side mount.

    I know its coming but he pinches my heels to my ass and basically gets his elbows to touch his knees so he is doing the pass perfectly and I can't stop him at all!

    I know you are going to say "Dont let him get that tight" but he is really good. SO is there anything I can do to stop him from doing this once he gets tight? Or what can I do to not let him get that tight?

    This is the video of the pass...

    YouTube - marcelo garcia - Passing the Guard
     
  12. Tiger Balm

    Tiger Balm Purple Belt

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    There was a defense to the pass you are referring, at bjpenn.com. There was a video for it, dont know if its still there.

    Basically when he jumps, you push his head to the same side he is jumping, and you scoot out at the same time, and recover your open guard. You have to push his head real hard or he is gonna pass.
     

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