Crime Particles For Justice: Sexism, Gender & Physics

[MVelsor]

I've never got the impression that diversity is sought in traditionally uniform occupations simply for the sake of diversity. I have always been under the impression that the goal is to find the most talented, qualified, and passionate people for the jobs, and that you cannot achieve that goal if significant portions of the population feel that they are not right for the field based on a lack of historical representation.

We need more talent in STEM. That talent will only be easier to come by if everybody, including women, know from a young age that they also belong there. "Physics was built by men" is a shallow statement, because it may seem to imply that only men have the capability to be successful in the field, while the reality is also that women have traditionally been forced into different societal roles. Soundbites and catchphrases never tell the whole story, and do more damage than good more often than not.

I'd say that it's at least quite bizarre a guy talented enough to be a CERN researcher would be that insecure or go so far to press the issue. I don't think his original statement ("men built physics, women don't face more obstacles") should've/would've been enough for him to be let go, but this:

He also showed cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science and presented the results of an analysis that he claimed showed that work conducted by female physicists was not as good as their male counterparts.

Really? <45>

 

[nac386]

I'd say that it's at least quite bizarre a guy talented enough to be a CERN researcher would be that insecure or go so far to press the issue. I don't think his original statement ("men built physics, women don't face more obstacles") should've/would've been enough for him to be let go, but this:

He also showed cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science and presented the results of an analysis that he claimed showed that work conducted by female physicists was not as good as their male counterparts.

Really? <45>

I don't find it remotely difficult to imagine a CERN researcher developing some level of resentment towards women for a number of reasons throughout his life, and I don't find it hard to imagine that he'd also be socially unaware enough to self-monitor. I actually find that very easy to believe. Even your average engineers and researchers in many fields are often socially awkward, especially around women.

Spoiler

But even beyond all that, I think it's lame when people feel the need to speak out against pretty mundane societal efforts to increase inclusion. It would only benefit our society if women and minorities grew up knowing that STEM was an option, and many times that is not the case because they do not see historical representation there. Taking a few basic steps to make sure we have the largest possible gene pool to draw talent from is a pretty logical thing to do, even if this nerd doesn't like it.

Also, in response to your post regarding NIH and Corona from the other day, it is officially telework time for the next 3 weeks. We won't be having to pay our dog walker anytime soon

 

[Islam Imamate]

I've never got the impression that diversity is sought in traditionally uniform occupations simply for the sake of diversity. I have always been under the impression that the goal is to find the most talented, qualified, and passionate people for the jobs, and that you cannot achieve that goal if significant portions of the population feel that they are not right for the field based on a lack of historical representation.

We need more talent in STEM. That talent will only be easier to come by if everybody, including women, know from a young age that they also belong there. "Physics was built by men" is a shallow statement, because it may seem to imply that only men have the capability to be successful in the field, while the reality is also that women have traditionally been forced into different societal roles. Soundbites and catchphrases never tell the whole story, and do more damage than good more often than not.

Somehow though this logic is never applied to other fields. Why isn't there a push for more men to enter the social sciences? Everyone talks about the importance of mental health nowadays and its no secret that men have poorer mental health outcomes and yet there is little interest in increasing men's representation in psychology. Or how about nursing? Or biology in general?

The reason is because these pushes for women in STEM aren't actually about increasing talent, its just the latest manifestation of feminist identity politics.

 

[nac386]

Somehow though this logic is never applied to other fields. Why isn't there a push for more men to enter the social sciences? Everyone talks about the importance of mental health nowadays and its no secret that men have poorer mental health outcomes and yet there is little interest in increasing men's representation in psychology. Or how about nursing? Or biology in general?

The reason is because these pushes for women in STEM aren't actually about increasing talent, its just the latest manifestation of feminist identity politics.

But there are pushes to get men involved in fields that they do not traditionally participate in. There is an association for male nurses, there are job fairs targeted at male students to get them involved in Elementary education, etc. People just sort of ignore it and don’t make a fuss.

There’s also the fact that men are not historically unrepresented in fields like Biology or psychology. In 1975 over 75% of psychologists were men. A lot of it has to do with the overall needs of the field as well. Software developers is the fastest growing field, so of course there will be focus there.

 

[MVelsor]

Also, in response to your post regarding NIH and Corona from the other day, it is officially telework time for the next 3 weeks. We won't be having to pay our dog walker anytime soon.

INB4 any references to local Mosques are made.

 

[nac386]

INB4 any references to local Mosques are made.

Their sod died, it’s a mud patch.

 

[JSN]

Jon LaJoie said it best.

 

[MVelsor]

Their sod died, it’s a mud patch.

 

[nac386]

There goes the neighborhood.

 

[MVelsor]

There goes the neighborhood.

Are you still planning on making the Hajj, @Kafir-kun?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Are you still planning on making the Hajj, @Kafir-kun?

Still gotta pay off student debt

 

[Andy Capp]

The Italian physicist Alessandro Strumia's paper concluding that female physicists don’t face more career obstacles than their male colleagues has been accepted for publication in the peer-reviewed journal QSS (Quantitative Science Studies) and is almost certain to spark more outrage. It can be read here (pdf) and I have to say, I agree with every god damn word of it. Heh, kidding. Kind of.

If you'll recall...

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-47478537

CERN Cuts Ties With 'Sexist' Scientist Alessandro Strumia

The European particle physics research centre CERN has cut ties with the scientist who said that women were less able at physics than men. It has decided not to extend Professor Alessandro Strumia’s status of guest professor. The decision follows an investigation into comments, first reported by BBC News, made by Professor Strumia at a CERN workshop on gender equality. Strumia told BBC News that he stood by his remarks.

"Some people hated hearing about higher male variance: this idea comes from Darwin, like other offensive ideas that got observational support," he told BBC News. "Science is not about being offended when facts challenge ideas held as sacred". He added that he believed that he had not been fairly treated.

Last September, Professor Strumia stated that “physics was invented and built by men, it's not by invitation" at a presentation at the CERN the workshop [on "gender and high energy physics"]. He also showed cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science and presented the results of an analysis that he claimed showed that work conducted by female physicists was not as good as their male counterparts.

Was CERN correct to cut ties with him?

I didn't read the paper you linked to but there's all kinds of evidence that contradicts it. I trust CERN's evaluation of his work and their decision, so probably, yes.

 

[Andy Capp]

I didn't read the paper you linked to but there's all kinds of evidence that contradicts it. I trust CERN's evaluation of his work and their decision, so probably, yes.

Or so I said before I read your subsequent posts.

 

[MVelsor]

Or so I said before I read your subsequent posts.

It was an obvious front for a science history and policy discussion that only partially materialized. I couldn't care less about the subject this thread is on the surface, dude. I have to create clickbaity titles to talk about anything that actually interests me. I'm starting to ponder if there's even a point of this place anymore. <45>

 

[Andy Capp]

It was an obvious front for a science history and policy discussion that only partially materialized. I couldn't care less about the subject this thread is on the surface, dude. I have to create clickbaity titles to talk about anything that actually interests me. I'm starting to ponder if there's even a point of this place anymore. <45>

Ah man. Say it ain't so. This place needs you.

 

[TheOldMan]

It was an obvious front for a science history and policy discussion that only partially materialized. I couldn't care less about the subject this thread is on the surface, dude. I have to create clickbaity titles to talk about anything that actually interests me. I'm starting to ponder if there's even a point of this place anymore. <45>

I think it's good to ponder that.
To some here the internet is their entire life. While there are certainly people here that I love and would fight for IRL, you included, I find it's good to step away sometimes to realize that this is just an internet forum with a lot of pixelated people, and real life is greater.
I guess I just try to keep it in perspective.