Palvik vs Bute?

[MC Paul Barman]

I don't see it happening. When has Pavlik ever been stopped? I don't anticipate that Bute would be the first.

Great point.
Anytime Pavlik has been dropped (Taylor and Zuniga) he recovers so quickly.
You have a guy with a good chin who can take a punch and if you do drop him - he hops right back up.

Martinez and Hopkins (not the hardest punchers, but who can still crack) hit him with everything, but he was always there.... still coming forward.

How did Bute handle a fighter who kept coming forward for all 12 rounds?
Bute won 90% of those rounds, but he tired while Andrade didn't.
Pavlik can do that too. He can take alot of punishment and still come forward for 12 rounds.
It's very risky for Bute - again, especially considering the opinion of the common fan.

 

[Del the Funk66]

I think it's too risky for Bute.
Pavlik is a guy who, with two losses, is viewed by many to be either one-dimensional (therefore useless) or damaged goods.
Most either don't know or don't care about the claims of sickness prior to the Hopkins fight.
And most won't give him credit for actually adjusting pretty well to Martinez prior to the cut that really threw him off of his game.

All that matters is most will still call him one-dimensional or damaged goods.

However, reality and popular opinion can be at odds - he's a live threat to Bute.
If Bute were to lose to Pavlik then that really tarnishes his image at supermiddle.
Popular Opinion: A one-dimensional, slow middle weight who was easily beaten by two boxers just beat (exposed) a supermiddle (Bute) who never really fought a live opponent.

Exactly right. People just completely ignore that Pavlik started hammering back before he got the cut. Anyone that thinks Pavlik is in any way a walkover fight is foolish. He doesn't give up. Ask Martinez, ask Jermaine Taylor. For being one dimensional, he sure has some great fights on his resume...

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Del -
I really changed how I viewed Martinez v Pavlik after your defending Pavlik's adjustment in the 4th round.
I was of the opinion, at first, that Pavlik looked the fool - losing soundly every round.
After you cautioned that Pavlik actually did adjust quite well to Martinez and really lost his momentum after the cut I rewatched the fight and came away from it completely agreeing with your assessment.

 

[Del the Funk66]

Great point.
Anytime Pavlik has been dropped (Taylor and Zuniga) he recovers so quickly.
You have a guy with a good chin who can take a punch and if you do drop him - he hops right back up.

Martinez and Hopkins (not the hardest punchers, but who can still crack) hit him with everything, but he was always there.... still coming forward.

How did Bute handle a fighter who kept coming forward for all 12 rounds?
Bute won 90% of those rounds, but he tired while Andrade didn't.
Pavlik can do that too. He can take alot of punishment and still come forward for 12 rounds.
It's very risky for Bute - again, especially considering the opinion of the common fan.

Not to mention that he got wrecked by Taylor. Probably the most damaged I've seen Pavlik, and he came back and just stomped him out.

 

[Del the Funk66]

Del -
I really changed how I viewed Martinez v Pavlik after you defending Pavlik's adjustment in the 4th round.
I was of the opinion, at first, that Pavlik looked the fool - losing soundly every round.
After you cautioned that Pavlik actually did adjust quite well to Martinez and really lost his momentum after the cut I rewatched the fight and came away from it completely agreeing with your assessment.

I appreciate that. :icon_chee

Pavlik's not a dumb fighter. He listens well to his corner. He just had nothing to offer for Hopkins. Hopkins was too shifty and his style was difficult for anyone to adjust. Part of the reason the guy's still winning fights at his age. Hopkins made a difficult fight for Calzaghe too.

 

[Mike Mesey]

I think the way Pavlik fights will again cost him a victory.
For the most part all he can do is push forward,and pressure,and if the fighter he fights thrives off that pressure he likely will have no plan b.
Bute takes the win in mid-late rounds.

 

[Omarawesome]

I like Pavlik too and he does have Heart, but he's too one-dimensional.

More complete top fighters at 168 with more tools will be too much for him.
Bute would fold his body. I can't see Pavlik seeing the Final bell against Bute.

I completely agree,I see pavlik making it to the later rounds but not the final one.Predict a stoppage around the 7th or 8th

 

[Gontran]

I think it's too risky for Bute.
Pavlik is a guy who, with two losses, is viewed by many to be either one-dimensional (therefore useless) or damaged goods.
Most either don't know or don't care about the claims of sickness prior to the Hopkins fight.
And most won't give him credit for actually adjusting pretty well to Martinez prior to the cut that really threw him off of his game.


However, reality and popular opinion can be at odds - he's a live threat to Bute.

I agree that Pavlik is a live threat to Bute and he certainly has a chance. I actually like Pavlik and I still respect his skills, whatever all the youngstown people (and others) are saying. However, with the smw division locked in the super 6 I believe Pavlik might be the best matchup for Bute to advance his career. The public perception of Pavlik has certainly grown more negative but he'd still be the biggest name on Bute's resume and with the tournament there's not too many options really. His next opponent is probably going to be Brinkley... I don't think that a win over brinkley does anything for Bute. A decisive win over Pavlik may let his name ring out a little more, especially if he is the first to knock him out, which I think is a possibility.

I don't see it happening. When has Pavlik ever been stopped? I don't anticipate that Bute would be the first.

When has andrade been knocked out ? Once, by Bute. Watch the Kessler-Andrade fight, this is a guy who can take some hits and still keep fighting. Kind of like Pavlik I guess, except that he was never even dropped before.

How did Bute handle a fighter who kept coming forward for all 12 rounds?
Bute won 90% of those rounds, but he tired while Andrade didn't.

Yes, but he has since changed his conditioning routine and everyone knows how the rematch went.

Now, i'm not saying "OmG! Bute will ko pavlik in the first rd 4sure lolz!!!", but I think that to consider the possibility of a ko win by Bute isn't such a crazy thought.

 

[ThirdPartyView]

Now, i'm not saying "OmG! Bute will ko pavlik in the first rd 4sure lolz!!!", but I think that to consider the possibility of a ko win by Bute isn't such a crazy thought.

Especially since the first Taylor first could have arguably been stopped in the second round with a rubbery legged Pavlik taking a shellacking. It's not exactly out of the realm of possibly to say that Pavlik could get (T)KOd by Bute since, while he's durable, he has been susceptible to getting hurt and Bute does have enough pop to hurt him if he lands flush (which he likely will).

 

[Czechvarmander]

When has andrade been knocked out ? Once, by Bute. Watch the Kessler-Andrade fight, this is a guy who can take some hits and still keep fighting. He was never even dropped before.

Andrade had been dropped prior to the Bute fight, Yusaf Mack dropped him early with a solid left hook in their fight on HBO.

Regardless, outside of both Pavlik and Andrade being longer, supertough, exciting orthodox fighters I'm not sure that there's much you can take from the Andrade fights and apply them to a potential Pavlik bout. Pavlik is much, much more skilled.

 

[Gontran]

Andrade had been dropped prior to the Bute fight, Yusaf Mack dropped him early with a solid left hook in their fight on HBO.

My mistake

Regardless, outside of both Pavlik and Andrade being longer, supertough, exciting orthodox fighters I'm not sure that there's much you can take from the Andrade fights and apply them to a potential Pavlik bout. Pavlik is much, much more skilled.

I agree that Pavlik has better boxing than Andrade, that's not what I was saying. I was responding to the "he was never knocked out so Bute won't knock him out" statement.

 

[JerseyRob]

I think Bute could stop Pavlik. I'm not saying he definitely would but the guy was a solid flurry away from being stopped by Taylor and if anything his skills have declined since that fight or he has been exposed for his one dimensional style and lack of speed and footwork. Also anybody who watched the Hopkins fight saw that if Hopkins wasn't "Bernard Hopkins" he could have KOed him or forced a TKO. Bute hits harder than Martinez and is just as crafty a fighter and could easily punish Pavlik enough to get him out of there in under. I think Kelly is screwed because he is a 160 pound fighter who can't make 160 anymore. I can see Pavlik's power not translating well to 168 against the top guys and a guy like Bute picking him apart and forcing a late stoppage. His management should avoid Bute and any of the Super 6 guys for a while to protect their guy. Set up some cans to build up his confidence and see where he's at in the division.

 

[Del the Funk66]

When has andrade been knocked out ? Once, by Bute. Watch the Kessler-Andrade fight, this is a guy who can take some hits and still keep fighting. Kind of like Pavlik I guess, except that he was never even dropped before.

I just do not see it happening with Pavlik. I can't imagine anything other than a stoppage because of a cut or a decision. But those are feasible wins for Bute. To me it's not a knockout...

 

[njackets]

No this fight isn't being talked about but why not. Plavik has stated that he wants to move up to 168, cause he can't make 160 anymore and Bute is waiting around til the Super Six is done. So why don't they fight each other. Who want to see this fight and who do you think wins it.

I was thinking this the other day.

Nah, Pavlik's going to hit the bottle and fight a few bums before he takes on another top fighter. He'll take a few soft touches at 168 before taking on Bute or a Super Six fighter. Can't blame him though, he just took a whuppin and another loss at this point would probably bump him off HBO.

But this is the likely senario!

I heard Bute vs Hopkins is possibly in the works atm.

I've heard this.