Palhares vs Shields *spoilers*

[Medusas Weave]

it's frustrating as hell to know that he won't get punished for this

don't give up your day job, Nostradamus

 

[randomg1t]

don't give up your day job, Nostradamus

i was pleasantly surprised when i saw he got stripped, they were praising him during the broadcast and on social media, so i guessed they'd just act like nothing happened.

i have a feeling he'll just end up fighting in asia if he gets punished in the US, though.

 

[aries]

All the 'Palhares isn't that bad...' and 'he's just retarded' excuses are BS.

He's held the sub past the tap 10 times in MMA alone. Who knows how many more times in his grappling career. He got kicked out of his gym for injuring training partners. Never injured someone from holding too long?! Tomasz Drwal, Mike Pierce, David Avellan and Jon Fitch all got injured by him holding too long.

If he's too stupid to understand then why did he suddenly stop doing it after he got kicked out of the UFC? He managed for 3 fights to let go with perfect timing. Then he starts doing it again. He understands perfectly well.

 

[Ckaa]

Because you know every stance that everyone in here has ever taken on both of those things.



If a man were on the ground tapping out, while his opponent struck him and the ref tried to pull him off, you'd have a point.

But he isn't. Knocked to the ground and still trying to fight (albeit poorly, in most cases), is not the same as giving up and tapping.

You are talking about sport ethic, not the danger element inherent to "tko's" victories (and sometimes KO ones too).

I, feel we need someone like Palhares, like we needed Aoki. Guys making the ground game dangerous, guys going against the sluggish trend of MMA. From times to times you always hear about people saying dumb sh*t like "submissions should just give points, not ending the fight" or "we should stand up guys after 20 sec on the ground"...

Palhares is doing something quite rare in MMA, he puts back in MMA the fear of the grappling game.

I don't think he ever has done much more damage than guys like Wanderlei Silva or Rampage (or Rampage ON Wanderlei Silva in their last fight), or Hendo on Bisping, ...

He was cut off the UFC from his fight with Pierce, Pierce did'nt even get really injured, it's a joke.

Palhares is not a role model but he isn't a devil neither.

I would rather go against someone like Palhares than someone like Travis Brown and his "stoppage" of Gonzaga, much more dangerous for long term health.

Palhares is hunted because he was a legitimate threat to the WW title. He would wreck Hendricks, Condit, Lawler... Everyone not named Hector Lombard (who is the WW Liddell).


But again, can't defend him on the pokes

 

[Nnedd]

You are talking about sport ethic, not the danger element inherent to "tko's" victories (and sometimes KO ones too).

I, feel we need someone like Palhares, like we needed Aoki. Guys making the ground game dangerous, guys going against the sluggish trend of MMA. From times to times you always hear about people saying dumb sh*t like "submissions should just give points, not ending the fight" or "we should stand up guys after 20 sec on the ground"...

Palhares is doing something quite rare in MMA, he puts back in MMA the fear of the grappling game.

I don't think he ever has done much more damage than guys like Wanderlei Silva or Rampage (or Rampage ON Wanderlei Silva in their last fight), or Hendo on Bisping, ...

He was cut off the UFC from his fight with Pierce, Pierce did'nt even get really injured, it's a joke.

Palhares is not a role model but he isn't a devil neither.

I would rather go against someone like Palhares than someone like Travis Brown and his "stoppage" of Gonzaga, much more dangerous for long term health.

Palhares is hunted because he was a legitimate threat to the WW title. He would wreck Hendricks, Condit, Lawler... Everyone not named Hector Lombard (who is the WW Liddell).


But again, can't defend him on the pokes

I can appreciate the perspective of alot of what you've written here.


I was talking about the sportsmanship and ethics, over the danger, for sure. Primarily because we're talking about actions as they relate to being in or out of the ruleset.

Striking is inherently more dangerous in the long term, not only in fights, but in training. One nice thing about grappling sparring compared to kick boxing sparring is that you take little to no brain damage.

In general, getting punched in the head is more dangerous long term. The comparison is kind of moot, because that's the sport. Comparing the damage level of the two is a non factor in the conversation, we're talking about breaking the rules.


In that vein, Paul Daley punched Kos after the bell, and was kicked out of the UFC. That punch wasn't dangerous.

It's the blatant disregard for the rules that is at point.

 

[combatcvic]

I heard palhares wouldnt even take the lock off his high school locker after graduation. locker is useless now just sitting there.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

yeah, sticking his fingers in shields' eyes a gazillion times had nothing to do with winning. eye gouges are innocent, the rule is there for no reason at all.

also, when someone breaks the rules, all they have to say is this is a fight, not ballet. next time, palhares should just do it all at once: roid himself up to his eyeballs, poke his opponents eyes out and then grab a sub and hold it for a few extra seconds after the blind guy taps. while he's at it, he could put a few razors on his gloves.. this is a fight, after all.

there are only retards.

the gazillion times uhmm???

ok, show me where are the gazillion eye pokes, not only there not a single gif with a clear intentional eye poke, dont you think jake would have some blood inside his eyes if he was actually eye poked 8 times as he says? dont you think jake would at least stop fighting for his good 5 minutes if he was constantly being eye poked? dont you think mazz who was right there and a much better look that what the cameras were offering would at least take a point out? he warned palhares out of jakes request, dont you think theres a chance that jakes was being a fucking drama queen and palahares was actually pushing his face (he was doing that, that for sure)... so far, you are taking the stance, toquinho is a dirty fighter, thus jake (whos as much cheater as toquinho, eye poker and steroid user) MUST BE TELLING THE TRUTH...

 

[BJJ_Rage]

The ref warned Palhares for eye gouging, so yes, he did see it. Furthermore, even if he didn't see it, does that mean it didn't happen? There have been several fouls that refs miss and results have even been overturned after the fact.

It's also idiotic to say that it wouldn't be a a factor if it occurred. Of course it would. When you are getting eye gouged, it completely changes your entire demeanor in the fight. When you have outrage over something, it changes your composure. All of this is a factor.

I have no clue how someone can continue to stick up for Palhares. He has a horrible history that is well documented. It's not a coincidence that UFC cut him and WSOF had to strip him of the title. The dude is a loose cannon.

he warned him, then whay the fuck didnt he take a point after the 8 eye pokes the supposly did?

 

[ChainFlow]

You are talking about sport ethic, not the danger element inherent to "tko's" victories (and sometimes KO ones too).

I, feel we need someone like Palhares, like we needed Aoki. Guys making the ground game dangerous, guys going against the sluggish trend of MMA. From times to times you always hear about people saying dumb sh*t like "submissions should just give points, not ending the fight" or "we should stand up guys after 20 sec on the ground"...

Palhares is doing something quite rare in MMA, he puts back in MMA the fear of the grappling game.

I don't think he ever has done much more damage than guys like Wanderlei Silva or Rampage (or Rampage ON Wanderlei Silva in their last fight), or Hendo on Bisping, ...

He was cut off the UFC from his fight with Pierce, Pierce did'nt even get really injured, it's a joke.

Palhares is not a role model but he isn't a devil neither.

I would rather go against someone like Palhares than someone like Travis Brown and his "stoppage" of Gonzaga, much more dangerous for long term health.

Palhares is hunted because he was a legitimate threat to the WW title. He would wreck Hendricks, Condit, Lawler... Everyone not named Hector Lombard (who is the WW Liddell).


But again, can't defend him on the pokes

Great post.

There's something really wrong with him, but he's brought something important to the sport.

 

[Se4n]

the gazillion times uhmm???

ok, show me where are the gazillion eye pokes, not only there not a single gif with a clear intentional eye poke, dont you think jake would have some blood inside his eyes if he was actually eye poked 8 times as he says? dont you think jake would at least stop fighting for his good 5 minutes if he was constantly being eye poked? dont you think mazz who was right there and a much better look that what the cameras were offering would at least take a point out? he warned palhares out of jakes request, dont you think theres a chance that jakes was being a fucking drama queen and palahares was actually pushing his face (he was doing that, that for sure)... so far, you are taking the stance, toquinho is a dirty fighter, thus jake (whos as much cheater as toquinho, eye poker and steroid user) MUST BE TELLING THE TRUTH...

he warned him, then whay the fuck didnt he take a point after the 8 eye pokes the supposly did?

and because mazzagati is a shitty ref

 

[Oblivian]

he warned him, then whay the fuck didnt he take a point after the 8 eye pokes the supposly did?

Same reason we see late stoppages, early stoppages, points not taken with groin strikes, stoppages like Krause/Bobby Green, etc. Refs make mistakes and everything is a split second judgment call. It was pretty clear the ref saw eye pokes though, and he warned. It all happens very quickly. The announcers sure caught on quick too.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Same reason we see late stoppages, early stoppages, points not taken with groin strikes, stoppages like Krause/Bobby Green, etc. Refs make mistakes and everything is a split second judgment call. It was pretty clear the ref saw eye pokes though, and he warned. It all happens very quickly. The announcers sure caught on quick too.

not it was not clear, it was clear toquinho was rubbing his hand on jakes face, or eye zone, that is not an eye poke. If mazz saw one eye poke, and warned palhares, then why wouldnt he proceed to take a point after 8 suppously eye pokes? I didnt see 8 nor 7 or even 2, I saw maybe 1. Now, if you saw them, you either were live there, or you have seen a gif or vid of the fight. If its the second, then I kindly ask you to post it, I will gladly rectify my position.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

and because mazzagati is a shitty ref

please show my where in that pic is the evidence of a finger getting into jakes eyes? do you see a single red dot in side jakes eyes? 1 single? jake got his ass kicked, thats what that picture shows. Get a pic of GSP's eyes in his jake shields fight, thats an eye whos got eye pocked, yet jake was eye poked 8 times and there it shows nothing a like?

Have you seen pat cummings pic? did you read a single comment on him on feijao poking his eyes?

 

[randomg1t]

the gazillion times uhmm???

ok, show me where are the gazillion eye pokes, not only there not a single gif with a clear intentional eye poke, dont you think jake would have some blood inside his eyes if he was actually eye poked 8 times as he says? dont you think jake would at least stop fighting for his good 5 minutes if he was constantly being eye poked? dont you think mazz who was right there and a much better look that what the cameras were offering would at least take a point out? he warned palhares out of jakes request, dont you think theres a chance that jakes was being a fucking drama queen and palahares was actually pushing his face (he was doing that, that for sure)... so far, you are taking the stance, toquinho is a dirty fighter, thus jake (whos as much cheater as toquinho, eye poker and steroid user) MUST BE TELLING THE TRUTH...

yes, it makes much more sense to assume shields was lying, sure. i'm not going to dig up gifs for you, i've watched the video several times and it's very evident palhares is being a dick with his fingers.

the ref warns him several times, which is baffling in its own right. if you have to warn someone for the second time in 30 seconds not to stick his fingers in his opponent's eyes, it shouldn't be a warning anymore but a point deduction. the third time should be a DQ. this isn't rocket science, you just can't put your hand on his cheek and push away because your fingers slide into his eyes. that's all there is to it.

your arguments in this thread thus far have been that it only took one second too long to let go, that maia did it too, that not all fighters are nice guys and that shields is a cheater. we get it, you're a fan of toquinho. but seriously, let it go, you're reaching so far it's not even amusing anymore.

shields complained several times. mazzagatti warned him several times. the announcers commented on it. all palhares did was pull the stupid face and went all "huh, what did i do?". shields' eyes after the fight looked very much like they were poked. but yeah, the logical conclusion is that everyone is in on some anti-palhares conspiracy, he's just a simple guy and everyone's trying to undermine him. unluckiest guy in the world, really.

 

[Pierced7681]

Are you even allowed to talk to the ref? I remember herb dean warning a fighter not to talk to him. Wtf was mazagatti supposed to do? Take jakes word for it? IMO jake was fishing for a dq win and mazagatti didn't bite.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

yes, it makes much more sense to assume shields was lying, sure. i'm not going to dig up gifs for you, i've watched the video several times and it's very evident palhares is being a dick with his fingers.

you wont dig because there is not one gif which shows clearly palhares eye poking jake, may be once, but is not that clear...

the ref warns him several times, which is baffling in its own right. if you have to warn someone for the second time in 30 seconds not to stick his fingers in his opponent's eyes, it shouldn't be a warning anymore but a point deduction. the third time should be a DQ. this isn't rocket science, you just can't put your hand on his cheek and push away because your fingers slide into his eyes. that's all there is to it.

So you dont ever push your partners face off when they are applying pressure? I do it all the time, and I dont eye poke anyone in my gym, never had in 6 years of my short grappling journey, but besides that, rubbing your hand into your opponents face IS NOT ILLEGAL, so you better come up with something else, this is not rolling around, this is fifighitng, is ok to shin kick your opponent in the head, but nor rubbing your gloves onto your opponents face? . I agree, if mazz wouldve seen toquinho do it 2 or 3 times intentionally, toquinho shouldve been dq'd, no questions asks, but you wanna take a guess why mazz didnt dq toquinho? is there a global conspiracy to make toquinho look like the best fighter in the world and mazz on the pay roll??? or maybe, just maybe, mazz did not see anything illegal going on?

your arguments in this thread thus far have been that it only took one second too long to let go, that maia did it too, that not all fighters are nice guys and that shields is a cheater. we get it, you're a fan of toquinho. but seriously, let it go, you're reaching so far it's not even amusing anymore.

shields complained several times. mazzagatti warned him several times. the announcers commented on it. all palhares did was pull the stupid face and went all "huh, what did i do?". shields' eyes after the fight looked very much like they were poked. but yeah, the logical conclusion is that everyone is in on some anti-palhares conspiracy, he's just a simple guy and everyone's trying to undermine him. unluckiest guy in the world, really.

this is what happened: shields complained, mazz had to react because shields was crying like a baby, shields kept on complaining, went chin on the eye (funny you dont mention this) the person who had the best view in the arena was the ref, he did not eve deduct a point because he didnt see what shields was crying about. Shields eyes do not look like they were eye poked, his eyes looked like he got his ass kicked around, (by your logic, patt cummings was eye poked to death)

I stand by my opinion that he hold wasnt nothing out of this world, I stand by my opinion that maia also didnt let go while neil was tapping, I stand by my opinion that when strikers cant stop fighting and refs have to break them aparts, is good old adrenaline, its understandable, the heat of the moment, but when a grappler does it, MOTHER FUCKER YOU DIRTY BASTARD! and I specially stand by my opinion that jake (whos a known cheater too) was playing drama queen and you have no way to prove it other ways, if you do, bring on the proof.