Paleo buster ...

Not really a paleo buster when most of these cultures ate grains which seems to be one of the major things paleo doesn't like.
 
Very true, should have chosen a better title ... although 4000 years ago the Aleutians were not eating grains, their diet consisted of meat, fish, and some seasonal vegetables/fruits.
 
While on the topic of atherosclerosis, another study published a few weeks ago centers around the macrop h a g es and netrin-1 and their role in the progression of it ...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120109102922.htm


I am interested in your take SD. As I read the article it made me think that there is probably a reason for the body to send the macrop h a g es there (cleaning arterial plaque). While this is a new discovery, I find it hard to believe this is the cause. I would think it is more of a reaction to oxidized pufas or inflammation that has damaged arterial walls.
 
This is 100% what I expected to see when I opened this thread:

potato.jpg

I'm disappointed. Mummies with heart disease. Ya, those fuckers were already drinking beer dude, what do you expect?
 
Well...a little history/anthropological research leads you understand that most Eygptians whether wealthy or working folk made hops/barley nasty looking beer their staple not to mention the tons of wheat they ate.

Look at the Kitavan Study and study how they ate and lived. No disease of civilization before trading with the west occurred. Eat whole foods not grains/conventional diary and legumes. Most people will see their biomarkers/blood work improve.
 
scottm said:
While on the topic of atherosclerosis, another study published a few weeks ago centers around the macrop h a g es and netrin-1 and their role in the progression of it ...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120109102922.htm


I am interested in your take SD. As I read the article it made me think that there is probably a reason for the body to send the macrop h a g es there (cleaning arterial plaque). While this is a new discovery, I find it hard to believe this is the cause. I would think it is more of a reaction to oxidized pufas or inflammation that has damaged arterial walls.
Click to expand...

This is nothing new at all, there is tons of research on macrophgs involvement in atherosclerotic lesions. I have some reviews and studies on this topic on my home computer that I will post later, but this is essentially things they have known for years.

Truth of the matter is that the cause of atherosclerotic lesions are many. Anything that oxidizes is probably fair game (cholesterol, PUFA, minerals, etc). the composition of most ruptured atherosclerotic lesions are free cholesterol, cholesterol esters that are predominantly PUFAs, macrophgs, and collagenous matrices. The persistance of macrophgs is often the most damaging, as they degrade collagenous matrices and cause atherosclerotic lesions to rupture (causing myocardial infarct, etc). The big problem is macrophg persistence, which is likely caused by an unequal distribution of anti-inflammatory/pro-inflammatory cytokines/adipokines (a common problem in virtually every disease state, ranging from CHD, diabetes, metsyn, depression, sepsis... etc).
 
lildog said:
Well...a little history/anthropological research leads you understand that most Eygptians whether wealthy or working folk made hops/barley nasty looking beer their staple not to mention the tons of wheat they ate.

Look at the Kitavan Study and study how they ate and lived. No disease of civilization before trading with the west occurred. Eat whole foods not grains/conventional diary and legumes. Most people will see their biomarkers/blood work improve.
Click to expand...

In what universe are legumes and dairy related to negative health outcomes? Especially dairy, where almost every RCT or epi study shows only positive outcomes, yes, even including "conventional" dairy...
 
Seriously-Dead said:
In what universe are legumes and dairy related to negative health outcomes? Especially dairy, where almost every RCT or epi study shows only positive outcomes, yes, even including "conventional" dairy...
Click to expand...

Dairy can be affected by what the animal producing the milk consumes. I believe the Paleo community are generally against dairy because of all the crap cows eat. If it's grass fed and isn't injected with a bunch of chemicals, then some of the paleo guys don't think it's bad.
 
Thunderflash500 said:
Dairy can be affected by what the animal producing the milk consumes. I believe the Paleo community are generally against dairy because of all the crap cows eat. If it's grass fed and isn't injected with a bunch of chemicals, then some of the paleo guys don't think it's bad.
Click to expand...

yes well unfortunately these people are far removed from the actual data on the issue, and instead appeal to fantasies and pseudo-authorities.
 
Seriously-Dead said:
In what universe are legumes and dairy related to negative health outcomes? Especially dairy, where almost every RCT or epi study shows only positive outcomes, yes, even including "conventional" dairy...
Click to expand...

70% of the population... hence the majority of world is lactose intolerant. They obviously shouldn't consume dairy ever. Digestive tract issues and immune issues and low grade inflammation...not good.
 
lildog said:
70% of the population... hence the majority of world is lactose intolerant. They obviously shouldn't consume dairy ever. Digestive tract issues and immune issues and low grade inflammation...not good.
Click to expand...

Well obviously you must have a ton of RCTs showing negative outcomes with dairy consumption to back this up...
 
lildog said:
70% of the population... hence the majority of world is lactose intolerant. They obviously shouldn't consume dairy ever. Digestive tract issues and immune issues and low grade inflammation...not good.
Click to expand...

People that are lactose intolerant shouldn't consume dairy ever? Do you honestly believe this to be true? If the consumption of dairy was that troublesome to the 70% of the world, don't you think the industry wouldn't be as booming as it is? I think you have a misunderstanding of lactose intolerance and exactly what it entails.
 
Oblivian said:
People that are lactose intolerant shouldn't consume dairy ever? Do you honestly believe this to be true? If the consumption of dairy was that troublesome to the 70% of the world, don't you think the industry wouldn't be as booming as it is? I think you have a misunderstanding of lactose intolerance and exactly what it entails.
Click to expand...

Came back here to kind of say the same thing, but I guess I'll just post some studies to drive home the point a bit more.

http://www.jacn.org/content/17/6/631.short
People had a tendency to overestimate their lactose malabsorption, unnecessarily avoiding milk consumption. Very few people who are milk averse are actually intolerant of lactose.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/jbmr.0301207/full
People with the genotype for lactase intolerance are more averse to milk, and show worse bone measures compared to those who weren't

And I mean, if we take China and India out of the question, most of the world isn't lactose intolerant. And we have to take into account how it is diagnosed (usually from a dose of 50g of lactose, which is actually a fairly large serving equalling about a litre of milk dosed in an incredibly fast single-serving method), and that may not be an accurate representation of real-life dairy consumption or real-life intolerance.
 
If you think no European or African people are lactose intolerant you are wrong...again many people of African ancestry are lactose intolerant. You want to argue with what is classified as lactose intolerant and what it means go ahead round and round we go..

If one is lactose intolerant one should not drink lactose milk...i know thats a bold statement to make but call me crazy i don't need to fetch studies showing something that is self evident to make it so. If someone wants to risk their own health over dairy when they could easily eliminate conventional lactose laden dairy then go ahead b/c its so easy to tell if one is experiencing low grade inflammation and to pin point the cause of diarrhea, bloating, and/or constipation etc. to the last dairy one had. Dairy can cause the above digestive distress 30 mins after eating to several hours later. So again hard to pinpoint that distress to something you ate maybe 6 hours previously. It doesn't make it so that it wasn't the dairy you consumed that caused it just b/c you can't "prove" it or there wasn't any great studies to back it up etc.
 
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