Pakistan - 6 years ago 5 girls diappeared , gruesomely killed for family 'Honor'

[TheGreatA]

In rural, tribal, primitive villages, this kind of stuff can happen, due to irrational beliefs and misguided codes of "honor".

I cannot honestly say that these people would behave any differently if they were Christians. We have seen some of the craziest shit done in the name of "Christianity" in Africa.

 

[Islam Imamate]

this is being held up as representative of muslims, when the whole story states that even in deepest darkest pakistan, this is an atypical story, and there is a new law in place to make sure this kind of thing doesnt happen.

digging up obscure atypical stories to vilify a world religion is weak, and so is this thread.

The viciousness of the honor killing is what's atypical but honor killings are hardly unheard of in Pakistan. Even if there are laws against it there is a lot of support for it in the population given the unwillingness of families to cooperate with authorities in cases like these.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Edit: Double post

 

[Islam Imamate]

In rural, tribal, primitive villages, this kind of stuff can happen, due to irrational beliefs and misguided codes of "honor".

The sad part is in a sense its not misguided. If you live in an honor culture the rules apply to you whether you like it or not. So regardless of what you may think of it you're going to be judged by its rules and norms. Conforming is safer than resisting.

I'd like to know if there is a model for dismantling this extreme and toxic form of honor culture. For instance, are there areas in Pakistan and Inida that have successfully reduced their numbers of honor killings?

I cannot honestly say that these people would behave any differently if they were Christians. We have seen some of the craziest shit done in the name of "Christianity" in Africa.

Yeah that's true. Sometimes the religion, whether its Christianity or Islam, gets fused with local customs. So the religious tradition is adapted to justify the local custom that originated outside it. Really that's part of the reason these religions can spread so far and wide, they're adaptable to a wide variety of circumstances.

 

[TheGreatA]

The sad part is in a sense its not misguided. If you live in an honor culture the rules apply to you whether you like it or not. So regardless of what you may think of it you're going to be judged by its rules and norms. Conforming is safer than resisting.

I'd like to know if there is a model for dismantling this extreme and toxic form of honor culture. For instance, are there areas in Pakistan and India that have successfully reduced their numbers of honor killings?

All I'm saying is that their sense of "honor" is misguided. I cannot see any sort of respect being acquired by torturing and killing children. One must be under-going some sort a societally induced mass psychosis to see any sort of "honor" in such actions.

If somebody was actually able to spell out to these people what they are actually doing, instead of what they think they are doing, they would probably break down and cry like children. I've seen this many times in filmed interrogations with young jihadists, among others.

 

[MicroBrew]

Its not only about poverty though. In India one fo their most economically developed states, Haryana, is notorious for honor killings among the upper caste.

Which brings me to my next point, that honor killings aren't all about Islam either. Its very common in India and in fact one of the states with the lowest incidents of honor killings also happens to be the state with the largest Muslim minority. Which is not to say its because of the Muslims that there are no honor killings but rather that they're presence isn't necessarily increasing it.

Pakistan shares a lot with India's pre-Islamic culture. Honor killings are the result of extreme honor cultures and you don't necessarily need Islam for that.

Yeah the 'Honor' killings in India is in Northern India, can't even recall hearing about it in South India or Eastern India. Pakistan being Islamized North India, no surprise they retain the same old customs.

Islam plays An important part, since it is a very patriarchal, tribal and misogynistic ideology BUT pre-Islamic customs and attitudes is the major reason.

 

[spin]

Pakistan is an ally of America. Ponder why.

Our allies are strategic, not moral.

 

[Stoic1]

Our allies are strategic, not moral.

Tell me more about our strategy, please.

 

[TheGreatA]

Yeah that's true. Sometimes the religion, whether its Christianity or Islam, gets fused with local customs. So the religious tradition is adapted to justify the local custom that originated outside it. Really that's part of the reason these religions can spread so far and wide, they're adaptable to a wide variety of circumstances.

I would argue that without Islam, the Middle East would be in a worse state. Their ancient desert folklore simply doesn't make for very "humane" or constructive beliefs, overall.

We are talking about a very extreme environment, devoid of many resources, such as freely accessible, clean water.

 

[spin]

Tell me more about our strategy, please.

Saudi Arabia is wealthy and well placed.

Israel a a focal point for of countries hate that could be focused on us, plus we to support any non Muslims in the region.

And Pakistan is strategically placed as well.

 

[DevilsLettuce]

Cultural Objectivism. They are an inferior culture, a bankrupt ideology.

Carrying Capacity. The earth is vastly overpopulated for the ways that we have decided to use our resources. There are more than twice the amount of people on the planet now than there was in 1970.

The population of the planet should be reduced by at least half and we should use objective measures to decide who. It's just science.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Just the natural progression of white supremacy or something

I wonder what our liberal friends have to say about this..

 

[Islam Imamate]

All I'm saying is that their sense of "honor" is misguided. I cannot see any sort of respect being acquired by torturing and killing children. One must be under-going some sort a societally induced mass psychosis to see any sort of "honor" in such actions.

If somebody was actually able to spell out to these people what they are actually doing, instead of what they think they are doing, they would probably break down and cry like children. I've seen this many times in filmed interrogations with young jihadists, among others.

Oh yeah its definitely a fucking warped honor culture. But I wonder what the consequences are for not obeying it. That is, does the "dishonored" family of the girl in question face any repercussions for not carrying out the honor killing? If so then its at least somewhat understandable but if its really entirely motivated out of a sense of honor then its just something I can't understand at all.

Yeah the 'Honor' killings in India is in Northern India, can't even recall hearing about it in South India or Eastern India. Pakistan being Islamized North India, no surprise they retain the same old customs.

Islam plays An important part, since it is a very patriarchal, tribal and misogynistic ideology BUT pre-Islamic customs and attitudes is the major reason.

When are we going to realize that Pakistan was a mistake that needs to be aborted?

I would argue that without Islam, the Middle East would be in a worse state. Their ancient desert folklore simply doesn't make for very "humane" or constructive beliefs, overall.

We are talking about a very extreme environment, devoid of many resources, such as freely accessible, clean water.

That's an interesting argument, not exactly the kind I expect from the WR.

 

[Michaelangelo]

USA respects the hands of corruption of Pakistan

 

[shamaniac]

Hard to judge because it's a different culture. The Christian crusades were very gruesome also

Crusades ah the never ending excuse..
Very brutal events and history is full of those BUT
The very first crusades began around 1095

460yrs after the first Christian city was overrun but muslim armies.
443yrs after muslims plundered Italy
427yrs after mulims first laid siege yo the christian capitol of constanintople
380yrs after Spain for conquered by muslims
363yrs after France for was first attacked by muslims
249yrs after the Capitol of christian world, Rome, was sacked by muslims

By the time the crusades finally began, lovely and peaceful muslims already conquered 2 thirds of the Christian world.

I'm not saying the crusades should have happened, but i understand.
The very first crusades began around 1095

460yrs after the first Christian city was overrun but muslim armies.
443yrs after muslims plundered Italy
427yrs after mulims first laid siege yo the christian capitol of constanintople
380yrs after Spain for conquered by muslims
363yrs after France for was first attacked by muslims
249yrs after the Capitol of christian world, Rome, was sacked by muslims

By the time the crusades finally began, lovely and peaceful muslims already conquered 2 thirds of the Christian world.

I'm not saying the crusades should have happened, but i understand.

 

[Undying Poster]

The US gives financial and technical aid to Pakistani farmers to help them increase their crop yield and resist diseases etc.. The US is trying to hep them out of poverty , partly to deny extremists and militant groups foot soldiers.

Ironically were just creating extremists because were helping create more Pakistanis. Were also making some sweet doctors that move to West too, I guess.

 

[Undying Poster]

I would argue that without Islam, the Middle East would be in a worse state. Their ancient desert folklore simply doesn't make for very "humane" or constructive beliefs, overall.

We are talking about a very extreme environment, devoid of many resources, such as freely accessible, clean water.

Plenty of Middle Eastern people that aren't Muslim - Christians for example who are the most successful in Muslim societies. Yazidi, Bahai, Druze, Jews, Samaritans, and more I'm sure.

I agree that Middle Eastern religions are barbaric but at least the other ones have seemingly found a modern approach to religion. Meanwhile Muslims are still killing each other and non-Muslims. But then again who knows how those people would act (besides Christians) if they were the majority...

 

[Egelo]

I would argue that without Islam, the Middle East would be in a worse state. Their ancient desert folklore simply doesn't make for very "humane" or constructive beliefs, overall.

We are talking about a very extreme environment, devoid of many resources, such as freely accessible, clean water.

Before islam Baghdad was the center of world mathematics and intelligence. Persia was a great civilization long before that bs came to be.

Your a deluded leftists really have a hell of a hard on for apologizing and excusing the turd sandwich that is islam.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The sad part is in a sense its not misguided. If you live in an honor culture the rules apply to you whether you like it or not. So regardless of what you may think of it you're going to be judged by its rules and norms. Conforming is safer than resisting.

I'd like to know if there is a model for dismantling this extreme and toxic form of honor culture. For instance, are there areas in Pakistan and Inida that have successfully reduced their numbers of honor killings?

Yeah that's true. Sometimes the religion, whether its Christianity or Islam, gets fused with local customs. So the religious tradition is adapted to justify the local custom that originated outside it. Really that's part of the reason these religions can spread so far and wide, they're adaptable to a wide variety of circumstances.

Why then the torture then murder for essentially having bad etiquette?
Its so fucking backwards. If I'm subject to this culture where I have to kill my daughter for making eye contact with a male, why would I agree to having her tortured, too?

 

[Rod1]

Why then the torture then murder for essentially having bad etiquette?
Its so fucking backwards. If I'm subject to this culture where I have to kill my daughter for making eye contact with a male, why would I agree to having her tortured, too?

To send a message.

Why do cartels behead and torture people when they just want to keep their business running?

Or maybe it was just hatred.