Pacquiao beat 9 undefeated fighters. Mayweather?

[Seano]

Didn't duck, didn't use an illegal IV, still beating world class competition at 40, doesn't need to call all the shots etc.. Has more losses but has taken way more chances.

Floyd never took an "illegal" IV. He used an IV that was administered by USADA and cleared by NSAC. Cheaters generally don't report to the sanctioning body and the drug testing agency when they cheat and if they did, a fight surely would not have happened.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

Floyd never took an "illegal" IV. He used an IV that was administered by USADA and cleared by NSAC. Cheaters generally don't report to the sanctioning body and the drug testing agency when they cheat and if they did, a fight surely would not have happened.

The fight was under WADA, it wasn't allowed by WADA. Also he cut little to no weight for that fight as well, fishy stuff. Edit: Mayweather was 150.5lbs 30 days prior to the fight, 149lbs 2 weeks prior and 148.5 1 week prior. So why then did he need 750ml of IV when he barely cut any weight? It would only make sense if he shed like 20lbs of water weight which he did not do. USADA helped him cheat just like they're doing with Jones.

 

[Seano]

The fight was under WADA, it wasn't allowed by WADA. Also he cut little to no weight for that fight as well, fishy stufd.

USADA follows WADA standards. There was nothing in the IV banned. WADA and USADA allow IVs. NSAC did with exemptions as well. NSAC cleared the IV because there was nothing banned in it.

Let me ask this, would you have preferred they not fight because Floyd had some vitamin C pumped into his arm?

This is just Pac fans grasping at straws to excuse his performance against Floyd, like they do every other time he doesn't win. Its ridiculous to think Floyd applied for a license to cheat from these agencies and was actually granted them.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

USADA follows WADA standards. There was nothing in the IV banned. WADA and USADA allow IVs. NSAC did with exemptions as well. NSAC cleared the IV because there was nothing banned in it.

Let me ask this, would you have preferred they not fight because Floyd had some vitamin C pumped into his arm?

This is just Pac fans grasping at straws to excuse his performance against Floyd, like they do every other time he doesn't win. Its ridiculous to think Floyd applied for a license to cheat from these agencies and was actually granted them.

Why did he need 750ml of saline and vitamins injected into him when he didn't really cut weight? IV isn't just used to rehydrate but can also mask PED's.

 

[don't quote me!]

Someone wanted me to post a comprehensive list of ATG rankings of Pac and May with Pac ahead:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...st-pound-for-pound-boxers-of-all-time#slide74

Some criteria that were used:

"Their skill and accomplishments relative to others in their division(s).
2. Their ability to win in multiple weight classes, if applicable.

Do you favor wins and losses? World championships? Quality of opposition? Or maybe it's longevity, or mainstream appeal? It's a measure of a fighter at his peak and how he compared to and fared against the other great fighters of his era."

Pac's accomplishments far outweigh Mayweather's, and he won titles in 8 different weight classes compared to Floyd's 5. Pac even has more wins than Mayweather, superior quality of opposition, longevity, mainstream appeal, and a far more impressive prime/peak than Mayweather. Of almost ALL metrics used, Pac >>>>> Mayweather. Literally, the only thing May has on Pac is he "beat" Pac while May was using IV (likely PEDs) with Pac no longer in his prime with a torn rotator cuff and with Pac 10 lbs above his optimal weight class.

Fact of the matter is that Floyd never fought a HOF or ATG in their primes, and he should've lost to Castillo, while Pac was robbed twice against Bradley and Horn (all-time worst robberies). There are a lot of boxers who have gone more than 50-0, but no one has come close to titles in 8 weight classes. THAT is why Pac is top 5 ATG in my book. Floyd maaaaybe top 20.

It's not as simple as "hurrrr duuurrrr Floyd beat Pac so he's betterrrr". If that were the case, Hearns, Hagler, and SRL would be ranked above Duran. But Duran is top 10 ATG while H/H are in the 30s and SRL is 10-15.

Finally after trawling thru the Internet night and day, for over a week, you finally found a list, that had manny ahead of floyd. I bet you felt like you had found oil when you saw this list.

Unfortunately this list is from 2011, bleachreport.com did another list in 2012, shortly after marquez took manny's soul

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1436191-the-top-50-pound-for-pound-boxers-of-all-time#slide40

with Floyd above manny in the all time rankings like every reputable boxing list, that wants to taken seriously, will show.

I think Marquez's knockout of prime manny sent him to the hospital and down the all time rankings. I don't believe you can't call yourself the best of your era, when you lose a rivalry so comprehensively to a man about your size. A man Marquez that Floyd toyed with.

I would take issue with your reading of the metrics, so would almost every serious boxing publication, which is why they have Floyd above manny universally. Manny is a great fighter and I found myself routing for him against Thurman, I would probably be routing for him against Spence, but that would be likely be in vain.

 

[IGotAHugePeckah]

Three.

No wonder who's the greatest of this era. The one with most linear titles ever? The one in 8 division championship wins?

#CHERRYPICKINGSEASONISOVERAT50

That's probably one of the more retarded cherry picking of stats I've seen on a boxing forum.

Beating Thurman was no doubt a huge accomplishment, especially at Manny's age, but lets look at those undefeated fighters you speak of.

Rocky Palma (4-0 at the time, 18-7 career), Dele Desierto (4-0 at the time, 4-1 career), Boonsai Sangsurat, Seun-kon Chae, Nedel Hussien, Emmanuel Lucero, Jorge Solis, Tim Bradley, Thurman.

Bradley and Thurman are obviously great wins, Lucero and Solis were decent in their time, but lol at the rest.

 

[JustOnce]

That's probably one of the more retarded cherry picking of stats I've seen on a boxing forum.

Beating Thurman was no doubt a huge accomplishment, especially at Manny's age, but lets look at those undefeated fighters you speak of.

Rocky Palma (4-0 at the time, 18-7 career), Dele Desierto (4-0 at the time, 4-1 career), Boonsai Sangsurat, Seun-kon Chae, Nedel Hussien, Emmanuel Lucero, Jorge Solis, Tim Bradley, Thurman.

Bradley and Thurman are obviously great wins, Lucero and Solis were decent in their time, but lol at the rest.

you don't know what chery picking is , do you?

 

[Deleted member 363827]

you don't know what chery picking is , do you?

I think he does but you don't.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw1m9uEN-78P-5PDdKut0Tt7&cshid=1564244876373

Is JustOnce a troll? If so I can add him to the ignore list.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Pacman is the goat in my eyes with this win

One fight doesn't define a career but beating Thurman is a good cherry on the top.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Makes no sense, Chavez won the trilogy and Randall wasn’t the best fighter of his era

I love Chavez but he stole the rematch.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Floyd beat Pac in a shutout though. Doesn't that matter ?

You gave every round to Mayweather?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

You’re making no sense. I never said anything about Randal being better than Chávez.


I only said Floyd was better than Manny and Marquez arguably won 3 of their 4 fights. The first fight was incorrectly scored a draw, and that should’ve been Manny. The 2nd fight was a toss up, the 3rd fight Marquez got screwed. And the 4th fight Marquez slept a prime Manny.

So how is Manny in any way better all time than Floyd when he lost the decisive battles against his 2 biggest rivals of his era?

By cherry picking. JMM and even Manny himself are prime examples.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Pac was the guy who turned the fight down when it mattered most. It worked out financially but we never saw that fight earlier because of Pac.

You can blame Manny but the fact remains that he is the smaller guy and the fight didn't happen when it mattered most. And unless you think Manny was juicing throughout his career you have to put some of the blame on Floyd.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Floyd is 2 years older and Manny is still beating top ranked competition.

That narrative is bullshit.

Are you saying that Manny should be the favorite if they fight again? That Manny beat Thurman at this stage of his career just adds to his legacy.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The multiple time tattooed man wanted no drug testing because he was afraid of needles and wanted to control the “random” nature of the tests. It wasn’t until Marquez slept him that Manny demanded random testing as well.

There was maybe one real opportunity in those 5 years we waited for the fight to happen that it could have taken place, but that was during the time Roger Mayweather, who was Floyd’s trainer at the time, was in jail. And we all know Manny wouldn’t have taken the fight without Roach by his side, so it only makes sense wouldn’t do it without his trainer by his side.

To those that say it took too long , they are wrong because It mattered when they fought because they were still both ranked #1 and #3 P4P in the world at the time. #1 and #2 in the division.

Playing the numbers game. The fight meant much less when it actually took place. Not least of all due to Manny's injury.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Carlos Baldomir had similar compubox numbers vs Floyd.

Baldomir was a scrub in an all time great context. His being champ speaks more to Judah's lack of discipline than his own greatness.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I just did. Floyd is older. Manny is still beating top dogs. To pretend as if Floyd waited for Manny to be past it is complete and total nonsense.

Floyd is older and bigger. He cut so much weight he needed an exemption for an IV due to dehydration. After complaining IVs shouldn't be used because they can mask PEDs. I'm not saying he was juicing but it also wouldn't make sense that Floyd made weight then didn't pack on any weight afterwards.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

You don't see how its sort of off that the older guy gets called for waiting for the younger to get old? You don't see how PAc still winning at a high level means he is still quite relevant, especially considering the Floyd fight was over 4 years ago?

Being older and being shopworn are two different things.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The opposite argument makes more sense.

Maybe in a vacuum. If you take the fact Manny, whose style relies on speed, slowed down during those 5 years and suffered a KO loss it doesn't hold as much water.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

How was Roys career going at the time?