Overhook from Half-Guard

[Noskill]

Hey guys,

I still am on my overhook journey, trying to figure out what I can do from my back with that thing. I already made a thread - rather successful, I must say - on the overhook from closed guard.

You can find it here: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/overhook-arm-wrap-closed-guard-790065/

Now, I know half-guard is supposed to be played from your side, but these days, whenever I see an overhook, no matter where I'm at, I get a hold of the thing as if it were an underage asian girl. That much.

So I often end up with the overhook from half guard. I'd like to know what are your go-to's from there.

All I do is:

Slip in a butterfly hook and use it to get to butterfly guard.
Push their free knee and go back to closed guard.

I picked the first move from an Aesopian instructional, he also has a sweep from there, which I didn't have much success with. (Actually a brown belt at my gym told me that ''I'm never going to get that sweep''. I was doing it no gi though, without the belt grip.

Here it is : Half/Butterfly Guard with Overhook Lesson Archive Aesopian’s Totally Awesome Journal

Otherwise, sometimes, I let go of my overhook and grab a kimura on the opposite arm.

That's pretty much it.

What do YOU folks do, when you have an overhook from half-guard?

Submissions, sweeps, transitions?

 

[Shemhazai]

Not that I use it, but I know you can hit triangles from there.

 

[Luther]

triangles and if you keep his body low on your hips, omplata too.

 

[Foppa21]

If you get the overhook, do the same sweep Nog used to sweep Big Tim right before he subbed him.

Sorry, not up for descriptions right now... It's almost midnight, just watch the vid and ask the questions on the intracracies afterwards lol

 

[Zankou]

Half butterfly is far and away your best bet.

 

[How I Roll]

I hate to sound like I live on Eddie Bravo's nuts, but he does do some interesting things from half guard. The "Old School" sweep is my go-to from half guard. But if you are good at getting your butterfly hooks in, you'll land those sweeps a much higher percentage of the time.

 

[Zankou]

I hate to sound like I live on Eddie Bravo's nuts, but he does do some interesting things from half guard. The "Old School" sweep is my go-to from half guard. But if you are good at getting your butterfly hooks in, you'll land those sweeps a much higher percentage of the time.

Eddie's game from half guard is pretty generic, actually. Take the underhook, move from there into the takedown/sweep over/take the back combo. The only thing he does different than most is using a lockdown control.

 

[anaconda]

Eddie's game from half guard is pretty generic, actually. Take the underhook, move from there into the takedown/sweep over/take the back combo. The only thing he does different than most is using a lockdown control.

Very true. Eddie does a better job (over other instructionals imo) because he shows it as a comprehensive game so well.

When I started learning bjj Eddies book helped me a lot in learning the half guard basics.

 

[Trickster***]

There is a way to get into inverted guard and finish with a shoulder lock....check it out!

YouTube - Teaser for "Tornado Roll & Inverted Guard for Sport BJJ" DVD

 

[How I Roll]

Eddie's game from half guard is pretty generic, actually. Take the underhook, move from there into the takedown/sweep over/take the back combo. The only thing he does different than most is using a lockdown control.

I won't argue that, I guess what I meant was that Eddie's game revolves more around the half guard than most.

Like you said most of the stuff that Eddie does has been done, it's just that Eddie seems to go straight for the half guard where as a lot of grapplers just end up there.

 

[-Jonny-]

In no gi for transitioning to the half butterfly from half guard, I've had the most success with maintaining a deep overhook and pushing on my opponent's hip with my underhook (as opposed to the grip on the belt and the pant leg). From there I usually just continue to work for full butterfly.

I believe Eddie has a section in his book where he talks about failed double underhooks. I'll give it a look a lil later and post a technique or two.

 

[-Jonny-]

double

 

[blanko]

I won't argue that, I guess what I meant was that Eddie's game revolves more around the half guard than most.

Like you said most of the stuff that Eddie does has been done, it's just that Eddie seems to go straight for the half guard where as a lot of grapplers just end up there.

alot of guys go straight to half guard, roberto tozzi, terere used to do it and last but not least. The man who really changed bjj.. GORDO also pulled half guard alot.

 

[Slithers]

I hate to sound like I live on Eddie Bravo's nuts, but he does do some interesting things from half guard. The "Old School" sweep is my go-to from half guard. But if you are good at getting your butterfly hooks in, you'll land those sweeps a much higher percentage of the time.

...pay attention to the topic, guy. OVERhook... okay? eddie plays a UNDERhook halfguard.



I like the collar choke/triangle (or guard recovery) combo from the overhook, myself.

alot of guys go straight to half guard, roberto tozzi, terere used to do it and last but not least. The man who really changed bjj.. GORDO also pulled half guard alot.

what he said ^

 

[Cash Bill 52]

There is a way to get into inverted guard and finish with a shoulder lock....check it out!

YouTube - Teaser for "Tornado Roll & Inverted Guard for Sport BJJ" DVD

I like that. I'm learning new vocabulary words every day. "Tornado roll"

 

[Noskill]

Half butterfly is far and away your best bet.

Do you know any other sweeps from half butterfly, other than the one Aesopian shows in the vid I posted?

Once I get there, I like to grab a kimura on the ''paw arm''. One of the problems I have met with this kimura sweep is that experienced guys cross their feet under my non-butterfly leg, and then I can't post on this leg to lift with the other. IOW, it keeps both of my legs as one unit, and it impedes the sweep.

Any counters/preventive measures to this?

In no gi for transitioning to the half butterfly from half guard, I've had the most success with maintaining a deep overhook and pushing on my opponent's hip with my underhook (as opposed to the grip on the belt and the pant leg). From there I usually just continue to work for full butterfly.

Those are the kind of details that are helpful, although basic.

Also, Am I wrong to consider the triangle from there not to be a half-guard technique: you've got to transition to full guard before you get the triangle, so it is more of a fast triangle from a fast transition to closed guard.

Or do you guys know of any details that make it high percentage from a half-guard transition?

 

[StevieSparkZ]

Do you know any other sweeps from half butterfly, other than the one Aesopian shows in the vid I posted?

Once I get there, I like to grab a kimura on the ''paw arm''. One of the problems I have met with this kimura sweep is that experienced guys cross their feet under my non-butterfly leg, and then I can't post on this leg to lift with the other. IOW, it keeps both of my legs as one unit, and it impedes the sweep.

Any counters/preventive measures to this?

If a guy is gonna cross his feet underneath my half guard I will take my outside leg of the half guard and do the ankle lace on it. This will drag his foot away and flare it out also disrupting his base. It's the same one Eddie Bravo does before comin up for the old school sweep.

 

[Tony Manifold]

Not that I use it, but I know you can hit triangles from there.

I just saw this in Damien Maia's Science of jiu jitsu vid. It looks like a triangle heaven :icon_chee. But my triangles suck so don't take my word for it.

 

[-Jonny-]

Those are the kind of details that are helpful, although basic.

Also, Am I wrong to consider the triangle from there not to be a half-guard technique: you've got to transition to full guard before you get the triangle, so it is more of a fast triangle from a fast transition to closed guard.

Or do you guys know of any details that make it high percentage from a half-guard transition?

The problem with playing half guard with an overhook is your opponent can put a tremendous amount of pressure on you. Thus making it very uncomfortable and pinning you to the mat and therefore making it easier to pass. Also since your opponent is able to pin your upper body to the mat it makes it hard for you to be mobile and therefore making the submissions and sweeps from there very limited.

So I think the number one goal in the half guard position should be to obtain double underhooks However, that isn't always possible so I'm glad that you are making a thread addressing this. As far as I know your best bet is always a transition to another guard. If anyone has any other options from the overhook half guard position I think it will be a new revelation in BJJ.

With that in mind other than transitioning to the butterfly like aesopian described in his vid, I can only think of one other sweep/transition. I say sweep/transition because the sweep is very low percentage one.

Step 1: Take a deep and tight overhook. Make sure the leg coinciding with the overhook (ie: left arm has overhook so left leg) is positioned in between your oppoents legs.

Step 2: Open your half gaurd and have the leg coinciding with the overhook pull/curl back (thus trapping your opponent's leg... their knee should be on the mat and their foot should now be fanning out).

Step 3: Put the underhooked hand on your opponent's coinciding hip (ie: if your underhook is your right hand put it on your opponents left hip [mirror image])

Step 4: In one motion curl your leg (one coinciding with the overhook) back even more, push on your opponent's hip, and bridge and roll towards your overhook. If done with a lot of explosiveness it can sweep your opponent and thus you could end up with top position. However, this is unlikely because your opponent still has that untrapped leg to post with.

Step 5 (if necessary): If your opponent posts with their untrapped leg, maintain pressure on their hip and take your other leg out of the mix and obtain full guard.

For those of you who know Eddie's system this technique is known as "the godfather". It's great because you end up in full guard with that crucial overhook. From there you can work the stuff discussed in your other thread. I know I'm not the best at describing techniques so if you have any questions feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer them. Hope this helps.

 

[bds08]

Wow i see some of you do not roll, or you suck and have a bad instructor.
You pretty much do not want to be on your side. Not even in half guard. Unless you taking the back or doing some sweeps. But its just for a second.
I really have no idea how your gonna get a triangle from there. Or an oma plata. If you try you getting passed. Even by someone who has never rolled.
And I saw someone said half butterfly. That = your getting passed.
But back to the subject. Pretty much the only time I use the over hook is when strikes are involved and/or I am setting up a sweep or escape or the Kimura. I really hate having to do it. Its like saying ok your in a dominate position and beating me, let me hold you on me. Just doesn't make since to me. You need space to move, and his weight off you 95% of the time. There are subs there but if you don't get one you lose.