Overall analysis of Jones - Cormier fight

[Shwartz]

1. How you scored it round-by-round?

1st 10-9 Jones, possibly 10-10
2nd 10-9 DC
3rd 10-9 Jones, possibly 10-10
4th 10-9 Jones
5th 10-9 Jones
Overall - Jones wins anything from 49-46 to 49-48, I was OK with official result.

2. Who won striking battle overall?

Jones. Did more noticeable damage - destroyed DC's midsection and his gas tank.

3. Who do you think won if fight consisted from 3 rounds and would it close?

You can't just take 3 rounds of a 5-rounder. Pace would be completely different in 15-minute fight.

4. Who won wrestling batlle in your opinion and could we do the conclusion from these who is better MMA wrestler?

Jones via superior takedown defense.
Can't conclude that he is a superior wrestler overall, because he's physically as bad an opponent as DC can get. It would be interesting to see Cormier fight Rashad/Gus/Glover in the coming years.

5. Who won in your opinion the clinch battle?

Jones. Used clinch to his advantage to land a load of knees to DC's belly. And his clinch takedowns in rd4, too.

6. Did Jones fight more in the clinch and went for takedowns rather than keeped distance to give the message he is better in wrestling and clinch?

Yes, he did. He wanted to outwrestle the Olympian.

7. According to damage done and the conditions at the end of the fight was it close fight or not? Who looked more exausted? less active and in trouble? Who would won 6 round, if it exist?

Not close.
DC was more exhausted.
Nobody was really in trouble.
Jones would win round 6 by being the fresher fighter.

8. Was these fight more close than Jones- Gus and why?

No.
While Cormier was still fresh he spent too much time trying to take down much taller Jones from over-under clinch (a bad position for a short wrestler fighting against much taller one).
While still fresh Gus was landing and landing and landing.

9. Would DC chances in rematch better than in the first fight? Who had better chance in rematch Cormier of Gus?

I'd say they would be. Now he knows he shouldn't look to take Jones down from the clinch (he knows he can't) so hopefully he can come up with more damage-oriented gameplan.
I just can't say. They both were really hit by having subpar cardio for championship rounds, and I don't know who can improve it better. Guess it will be Alexander, 'cause Cormier is getting old.

10. If Jones choosed best possible strategy for these fight? And DC?

I think Jones could've spent more time keeping Daniel at distance with stiffarm and teep. He'd still do damage and wouldn't have eaten so many uppercuts.
DC was too careless with defending his midsection. It really bit him in the ass in the championship rounds.

11. Who won the activity battle and octagon control overall?

Activity - Jones. Control - push.

12. If the odds would be different if they fought in HW?

No.

13. If Jones underestimated Cormier like Gus?

He didn't underestimate him so I don't know what might have happened.

 

[loisestrad]

1st 10-9 Jones, possibly 10-10
2nd 10-9 DC
3rd 10-9 Jones, possibly 10-10
4th 10-9 Jones
5th 10-9 Jones
Overall - Jones wins anything from 49-46 to 49-48, I was OK with official result.


Jones. Did more noticeable damage - destroyed DC's midsection and his gas tank.


You can't just take 3 rounds of a 5-rounder. Pace would be completely different in 15-minute fight.


Jones via superior takedown defense.
Can't conclude that he is a superior wrestler overall, because he's physically as bad an opponent as DC can get. It would be interesting to see Cormier fight Rashad/Gus/Glover in the coming years.


Jones. Used clinch to his advantage to land a load of knees to DC's belly. And his clinch takedowns in rd4, too.


Yes, he did. He wanted to outwrestle the Olympian.


Not close.
DC was more exhausted.
Nobody was really in trouble.
Jones would win round 6 by being the fresher fighter.


No.
While Cormier was still fresh he spent too much time trying to take down much taller Jones from over-under clinch (a bad position for a short wrestler fighting against much taller one).
While still fresh Gus was landing and landing and landing.


I'd say they would be. Now he knows he shouldn't look to take Jones down from the clinch (he knows he can't) so hopefully he can come up with more damage-oriented gameplan.
I just can't say. They both were really hit by having subpar cardio for championship rounds, and I don't know who can improve it better. Guess it will be Alexander, 'cause Cormier is getting old.


I think Jones could've spent more time keeping Daniel at distance with stiffarm and teep. He'd still do damage and wouldn't have eaten so many uppercuts.
DC was too careless with defending his midsection. It really bit him in the ass in the championship rounds.


Activity - Jones. Control - push.


No.


He didn't underestimate him so I don't know what might have happened.

I actually agree with everything you said, except for the first round possibly being 10-10. I think Jones took that clearly (not by dominating, but still a clear round).

 

[rm95]

1. Round 1 Jones - Round 2 Cormier - Round 3 close but I gave it to Jones - Round 4 Jones - Round 5 Jones
2. Jones. DC's dirt boxing in rounds 1-3 was good and I thought he was getting the better of the striking then but he just seemed to stop throwing punches.
3. Close fight. Both fighters would have fought differently if it was 3 rounds.
4. Jones because of them takedowns in round 4.
5. Even. DC did some nice dirty boxing in the clinch in the first 3 rounds and Jones landed good knees from the clinch.
6. Possibly
7. Jones was the fresher fighter I believe.
8. No. Gus pushed Jones to the limit.
9. Maybe.
10. DC strategy from round 1-3 was good. If he had carried on with that same game plan (box his way inside, get into the clinch, dirty box) instead of just trying to wrestle Jones straight up he might have made the fight closer.
11. Jones.
12. Possibly. DC's power seems to be better at HW.
13. No.

 

[WrestlingGod78]

What were the "high" points in that f

 

[RepairManManMan]

This was a great fight, lets discuss it. I have a couple of questions for whom watched the fight at least one time.

1. How you scored it round-by-round?
2. Who won striking battle overall?
3. Who do you think won if fight consisted from 3 rounds and would it close?
4. Who won wrestling batlle in your opinion and could we do the conclusion from these who is better MMA wrestler?
5. Who won in your opinion the clinch battle?
6. Did Jones fight more in the clinch and went for takedowns rather than keeped distance to give the message he is better in wrestling and clinch?
7. According to damage done and the conditions at the end of the fight was it close fight or not? Who looked more exausted? less active and in trouble? Who would won 6 round, if it exist?
8. Was these fight more close than Jones- Gus and why?
9. Would DC chances in rematch better than in the first fight? Who had better chance in rematch Cormier of Gus?
10. If Jones choosed best possible strategy for these fight? And DC?
11. Who won the activity battle and octagon control overall?
12. If the odds would be different if they fought in HW?
13. If Jones underestimated Cormier like Gus?

1. too drunk but definitely closer than 49-46
2. Jones as I predicted was able to land punches in the clinch but I didn't predicted Jones would eat them as good as he did. As most predicted Jones was able to land his elbows as a counter to cormiers clinch game effectively. Jones also showed very good body punching and improved combinations.
3. dont know.
4. Jones, clearly, though in a straight wrestling match cormier wins IMO. MMA wrestling is a dumb oxymoron.
5.not the fans
6. no, he was being pressured and defended accordingly.
7. damage done....tie. but Jones clearly was the winner. On the "street" Jones wins.
8. No, but close.
9. cormier.
10. ?
11.JOnes
12. prob favor cormier more.
13. absolutely not.

 

[tombombadil]

holy shit. Some really nice responses here. This is like Sherdog circa 2003. I expected a bunch of nutswinging and petty bickering, which I'm sure there is some, but I'm not going to dig for it because it'll get me down.

Jones won the striking and wrestling battle.... kinda. Mostly he just won the stamina battle, and then took over the striking and got more takedowns/more time not against the cage. Cormier's ability to win the exchanges despite the reach disadvantage really impressed me... he just couldn't maintain his volume. Jones showed his fight intelligence again, this time by forcing transitions between the clinch and distance while holding his own in both. The transitions themselves, and the pace, tired DC out, allowing JJ to take over in both arenas, even though he wasn't technically better at either.

- Jones has a hell of a chin. So does DC, but Jones ate some big uppercuts from a guy who I believe hits the hardest of the two. He showed it against Texeira, too, and Gus. It illustrates how hard Gus hits with his precise, crisp punches. Glover and DC swing harder. Gus put more hurt on Jones.

- Am I totally crazy that I think DC might have won Round 5? Am I totally alone? To me, it was a nothing round, with a slam for DC, and some pointless punches at the bell.

1,3,4 for Jones for sure, so no controversy from my side... but I had it 48-47.... lemme have it, Sherdog!

 

[tombombadil]

1. too drunk but definitely closer than 49-46
2. Jones as I predicted was able to land punches in the clinch but I didn't predicted Jones would eat them as good as he did. As most predicted Jones was able to land his elbows as a counter to cormiers clinch game effectively. Jones also showed very good body punching and improved combinations.
3. dont know.
4. Jones, clearly, though in a straight wrestling match cormier wins IMO. MMA wrestling is a dumb oxymoron.
5.not the fans
6. no, he was being pressured and defended accordingly.
7. damage done....tie. but Jones clearly was the winner. On the "street" Jones wins.
8. No, but close.
9. cormier.
10. ?
11.JOnes
12. prob favor cormier more.
13. absolutely not.

why did you get so many votes for worst poster? You're funny and make some decent points now and again.

 

[tombombadil]

I see now that one of the questions is in comparing this fight to Gus'. No. This was a compelling, if somewhat boring fight, with a close but clear winner. Gus v Jones was ....... if there was a Round 6 someone might have died.

 

[RepairManManMan]

why did you get so many votes for worst poster? You're funny and make some decent points now and again.

BC most of the people here don't understand sarcasm, and or are biased fanboys, and therefore are easily trolled and manipulated and therefore subject to hating. all in all though, it was only 15 people who voted for me....

 

[RepairManManMan]

1. too drunk but definitely closer than 49-46
2. cormier as I predicted was able to land punches in the clinch but I didn't predicted Jones would eat them as good as he did. As most predicted Jones was able to land his elbows as a counter to cormiers clinch game effectively. Jones also showed very good body punching and improved combinations.
3. dont know.
4. Jones, clearly, though in a straight wrestling match cormier wins IMO. MMA wrestling is a dumb oxymoron.
5.not the fans
6. no, he was being pressured and defended accordingly.
7. damage done....tie. but Jones clearly was the winner. On the "street" Jones wins.
8. No, but close.
9. cormier.
10. ?
11.JOnes
12. prob favor cormier more.
13. absolutely not.

fixed number 1, I rightly predicted cormier uppercuts. wish he put his legs into them though.

mma has a huge arm punching problem

 

[tombombadil]

fuck sakes, why are all the posts on here so informed, unbiased and intelligent? Is there a whole different Sherdog crew up in the early hours??

Good points at the to of this page about the bodyshots from Jones. Maybe the most significant blows in the fight in terms of why one guy faded and the other did not when the fight was close at the 15 minute mark.

Also, the point about pacing. Bodytypes. I train a variety of things with a group of guys. Some guys have so much sprint/interval stamina in them. Some guys like me can go forever at a decent pace, but cannot sprint much harder than their pace.

I have a feeling that Jones is built for 5+ rounders. Not saying he couldn't have upped his output in a 3 rounder..... but he does seem suited to distance... like Nick Diaz or Carlos Condit.

 

[ib313]

Overall analysis?

Cormier lost. Jones might have cheated. Not sure if that was the difference here.

 

[tombombadil]

BC most of the people here don't understand sarcasm, and or are biased fanboys, and therefore are easily trolled and manipulated and therefore subject to hating. all in all though, it was only 15 people who voted for me....

sounds accurate. I voted for Redhawks.... unless I'm missing the sarcasm that guy's a fucking idiot!!

 

[RepairManManMan]

fuck sakes, why are all the posts on here so informed, unbiased and intelligent? Is there a whole different Sherdog crew up in the early hours??

Good points at the to of this page about the bodyshots from Jones. Maybe the most significant blows in the fight in terms of why one guy faded and the other did not when the fight was close at the 15 minute mark.

Also, the point about pacing. Bodytypes. I train a variety of things with a group of guys. Some guys have so much sprint/interval stamina in them. Some guys like me can go forever at a decent pace, but cannot sprint much harder than their pace.

I have a feeling that Jones is built for 5+ rounders. Not saying he couldn't have upped his output in a 3 rounder..... but he does seem suited to distance... like Nick Diaz or Carlos Condit.

it's that lankiness. Cardio IMO is number 1 even above skill and power and all of that nonsense that goes down the drain when your adrenaline starts pumping.

There is something to his yoga and in between rounds meditation shit Jackson has him do.

also IMO cormier looked fresher when he was fatter

 

[WilfyDee]

DC threw some nice combos and uppercuts but Jones was better everywhere and in my opinion won all 5 rounds. I understand the majority gives the second round to DC and I can understand why but I've watched the round three times and I still believe Jones won it

 

[YukisHeart]

First three rounds were very competitive. Honestly I'm not sure why everyone seems so sure that Jones took the first; Cormier was applying pressure contantly and I think the take-down (off a caught kick) has been weighed too heavily.

Second round Cormier pretty clearly had the edge; it was a dogfight for sure but Jones looked to be on the ropes at some points. Third was similar, but DC lost momentum after the eye poke.

Fourth round was probably the most decisive looking (although I believe Cormier was closer to actually finishing the fight in the second), with the take-downs against the cage seeming like an even bigger deal than they were because of the context of the fight. (DC the great Olympian, etc. etc.)

Fifth was meh. Neither achieved much, but DC was being frustrated in his offence. The slam was pretty cool, but because it was the fifth round and DC was looking desperate after the fourth, I think it was weighed much less than Jones's (less significant) take-down in round one.

The big problem for DC is that, after the slam, he clearly broke. Just hung on trying to get another take-down, despite the fact that he would obviously not be ending the fight off one even if he had managed it, to prove a point to himself. He should have been flurrying like mad, but had already conceded defeat mentally.

Under the ten-point must system, he could have been given 1, 2, 3 and even 5. Personally, I would have gone have scored the first a draw, the second and third for Cormier, the fourth for Jones, and the fifth another draw.

But that's looking at the rounds in isolation and, as with the Hendricks/Lawler 2, it was pretty clear which man broke and the decision was the right one.

 

[loisestrad]

also IMO cormier looked fresher when he was fatter

Or you could say "when he wasn't facing Jones".

 

[tombombadil]

it's that lankiness. Cardio IMO is number 1 even above skill and power and all of that nonsense that goes down the drain when your adrenaline starts pumping.

There is something to his yoga and in between rounds meditation shit Jackson has him do.

also IMO cormier looked fresher when he was fatter

People under rate fat. Too much muscle mass and too large of a weight cut are better indicators of a gas-victim (unless we're talking Auschwitz... no one was fat or muscular there)

For any endurance event, lean is the way to be. Its surviving that first 5 minutes against the Lombard's of this world. I know this from our training group because we do such a wide variety of things. The truth is, American sport skews our view of things. Nowhere else in life can you burst for 4 seconds and rest for 30, like in NFL, for 3 sets and then sit for 10 minutes or more. Or get all psyched up for a single lift of a bar. The biggest men in the world needn't be any bigger than the props in rugby, in a functional sense.... still able to go for distance at good pace.... and they are at biggest, as big as Lesnar.

 

[RepairManManMan]

Or you could say "when he wasn't facing Jones".

sure, if that's what makes your vag tingle

 

[loisestrad]

sure, if that's what makes your vag tingle

I haven't got a vag, I'm just being reasonable.


Would I be reasonable if I had a vag...?