Out-of-Association promotions?

[MMA junkie]

Did you guys heard about this brown belt who turned down a BB from Rickson Gracie?

He apologises and explained that he wanted to receive his BB from his master when he goes back to Brasil instead.

wow. I would do the same. Black Belt is obviously a big deal and I don't see why someone other than someone's main instructor would promote them.

 

[Fedorzilla]

As it's just a stripe, I'd take it off when you head back, but I can identify. I trained at Yamasaki in DC for about 5.5 to 6 months and came out of the box quickly. Then went down to Atlanta for the summer and trained 3-4 days/week with Jacare at Alliance. After being there about a month Jacare said that he thought I was about ready to test for my blue belt and I was subbing a few of the bluebelts (maybe I was just on a hot streak, but whatever). He kicked it around for a few weeks, but ultimately decided to test me for my blue belt. In his words, he said that this is generally something he abstains from doing, b/c there were times when Royce (specifically) promoted guys from other schools and it resulted in people feeling disrespected. He said that he had a lot of respect for Yamasaki Academy and didn't want to do that. However, I had only been training for around 6 or 7 months, I had been training there for about 4-6 weeks and I was to be there for a total of 3 mo. So, it wasn't like he was just handing out a belt at a weekend seminar. He watched me roll with whites, blues, purples for over a month before bringing it up. I tested, got my blue from he and Roberto Traven gave it to me.

At the end of the day, what the fuck do I know and who am I to question Jacare's assessment? Still, in retrospect, I think I handled it badly and perhaps there was/is some resentment by my primary instructor at Yamasaki. In fact, I trained there for several more years and did not get my purple there (as I badly wanted to b/c I learned almost everything I know from my instructor there) before moving to China and I'm still a blue. I feel that I should have called my instructor first and asked him if he was alright with it, but perhaps I was just excited to get the thing like most people are. Live and learn.

 

[yovan]

wow, I know Royce is a legend and all but that is disrespectful toward the OP's instructor.

 

[yovan]

Way, way back in the day (late nineties), both my current instructors received their blue belts from Rickson at a seminar.

Obviously not wanting to question a legend, they smiled, but put their white belts back on when they went home.

Soon after they moved to Manhattan to train full-time with Renzo (as white belts!)

They received their blue belts three months later from Renzo. (He knew their story by this time)

Back then I guess it was more common to get promoted at seminars. Perhaps Royce still operates under the same mindset.

 

[MisterRay]

If I were you I'd just go back to my school with a purple belt instead of a strip, much classier.

 

[Wrestleben]

As I planned, I never put a stripe on. I went and talked to my instructor. He has strong feelings on the subject. Maybe more importantly, my teammates have strong feelings on it.

Even though the whole thing put me in an awkward position, it's an honor to be recognized as doing something right by somebody like Royce.

You handled it perfect. Enjoy RMNU! We were very close to joining before choosing Carlson Gracie Team. My instructor is good friends with Robson and went to Brazil with him and Hermes Franca last year.

 

[nerraw]

I'd just mention it to him. Maybe it's a cultural thing. You pay someone over a hundred bucks a month to do what they love, and they still act like they own you.

 

[Rod1]

Firstly, wouldnt pay for a Royce seminar.

Secondly, as much respect as i have for Royce for what hes done for Jiu Jitsu, bringing it into the mainstream, and to the attention of the US, i cannot stand these stories i hear about his seminar promotions.


Who promotes guys from different Academies, after a couple hours of training with them? I mean yeah, its Royce, but fuck man... Have some respect for other instructors.

About every single martial art that uses the belt system, although other MAs have formal testing from qualified, he is also a 7th degree black, therefore he is supposedly more qualified for testing than a 1st degree black. Take it as you want, but if you don't respect the grade, then why have grades in the first place? why not does everyone invents colors? what's that crap about disrespect, its the same art.

 

[Rod1]

In BJJ, the belt is about lineage. It represent a relationship between an instructor and a student.

No, it doesn't, it represents mastery in the art of BJJ, even if the grade is awarded by someone else, you still respect the lineage. In judo for example its a tradition for the sensei to pay for the first test as it is usually failed. And he is the one that prepares you for the test.

People want to represent Royce by wearing a belt or a stripe awarded to them during a 3 hours seminars. It is meaningless once compare to someone that spent years of training under a BB on the mats.

Why? as long as you have the knowledge that its expected from that rank, its all ok.

And no, I hope the IBJJF is NOT here to sanction testing.

Actually it is, that's the whole point of an international sanctioning body.

BJJ is not Judo.

Belt ranking is from judo, and it has a purpose, its not a way to brand your students as cows or an ego trip.

 

[HEAVY GRAPPLER]

You handled it perfect. Enjoy RMNU! We were very close to joining before choosing Carlson Gracie Team. My instructor is good friends with Robson and went to Brazil with him and Hermes Franca last year.

Ah, thanks Ben. you know better than most about the whole situation up here. take care!

 

[akharon]

About every single martial art that uses the belt system, although other MAs have formal testing from qualified, he is also a 7th degree black, therefore he is supposedly more qualified for testing than a 1st degree black. Take it as you want, but if you don't respect the grade, then why have grades in the first place? why not does everyone invents colors? what's that crap about disrespect, its the same art.

A 7th degree black that hasn't rolled with you and has watched you roll for maybe 20 minutes is in no way more qualified to grade you than a no stripe black that has known you for months and years, and has rolled with you for hours, measuring your progress, helping you plug holes in your game.

 

[akharon]

No, it doesn't, it represents mastery in the art of BJJ, even if the grade is awarded by someone else, you still respect the lineage. In judo for example its a tradition for the sensei to pay for the first test as it is usually failed. And he is the one that prepares you for the test.



Why? as long as you have the knowledge that its expected from that rank, its all ok.



Actually it is, that's the whole point of an international sanctioning body.



Belt ranking is from judo, and it has a purpose, its not a way to brand your students as cows or an ego trip.

You dance with the one that brought you. Perhaps there's a level of pride that an instructor takes in awarding his belts to his students.

The purpose of the IBJJF has nothing to do with testing, it's more about collecting fees and putting on tournaments.

 

[lechien]

No, it doesn't, it represents mastery in the art of BJJ, even if the grade is awarded by someone else, you still respect the lineage. In judo for example its a tradition for the sensei to pay for the first test as it is usually failed. And he is the one that prepares you for the test.

Why? as long as you have the knowledge that its expected from that rank, its all ok.

Actually it is, that's the whole point of an international sanctioning body.

Belt ranking is from judo, and it has a purpose, its not a way to brand your students as cows or an ego trip.

Stop talking about BJJ like it has to be or it is the same pratices as Judo.

Once you realised the above, you will be making better posts.

 

[lechien]

You dance with the one that brought you. Perhaps there's a level of pride that an instructor takes in awarding his belts to his students.

The purpose of the IBJJF has nothing to do with testing, it's more about collecting fees and putting on tournaments.

You get a belt from someone else = Creonte!

I have no idea why Rod1 came up with the idea that IBJJF was the equivalent of the IJF in BJJ.

 

[lechien]

About every single martial art that uses the belt system, although other MAs have formal testing from qualified, he is also a 7th degree black, therefore he is supposedly more qualified for testing than a 1st degree black. Take it as you want, but if you don't respect the grade, then why have grades in the first place? why not does everyone invents colors? what's that crap about disrespect, its the same art.

Once again, you are thinking that BJJ is like Judo which is under one single federation.

It is just different!

 

[BatBoyJG]

I'd rip that stripe right off, or better yet take the initiative and tell him that I am not apart of the school, and not let it happen in the first place.

 

[Rod1]

A 7th degree black that hasn't rolled with you and has watched you roll for maybe 20 minutes is in no way more qualified to grade you than a no stripe black that has known you for months and years, and has rolled with you for hours, measuring your progress, helping you plug holes in your game.

I don't agree either with that kind of test, but he is a 7th degree blackbelt, who are you to question him? in the end grades are something that its given value by the bjj community. He gives away the blue with 3 hours of rolling because that's pretty much what you need to know if someone is blue level. Im pretty certain they don't give away browns or blacks.

You dance with the one that brought you. Perhaps there's a level of pride that an instructor takes in awarding his belts to his students.

So what happens when the instructor awards a rank similar to his? will the student have to wait? what if the student moves away? Ego tripping BS. A instructor is happy by seeing his students grow and in the future surpass him.

If that was the mentality of the greats, we wouldn't had judo or BJJ for that matter.

The purpose of the IBJJF has nothing to do with testing, it's more about collecting fees and putting on tournaments.

They do certify the blacks, try learning more

 

[redaxe]

Rod1, do you actually do BJJ?

 

[Rod1]

Stop talking about BJJ like it has to be or it is the same pratices as Judo.

Once you realised the above, you will be making better posts.

1.- BJJ its almost exactly like judo when it comes to its educational principles, and i mean carbon copy, the difference in rules and mentality is what creates a divergence.

2.- IBJJF certifies blackbelts and they have the same rules as in judo, only black belts can award ranks and you can't rank the same level as you, all degrees are handed by the IBJJF.

Once again, you are thinking that BJJ is like Judo which is under one single federation.

It is just different!

Judo its not under one federation either, each country has its own, there is also the Kodokan and teachers that give uncertified ranks, but there is no such thing as this mentality.

If you go and train under someone else and get graded and you come back to an old teacher with that rank, he will probably ask you were you got graded, if he is suspicious of the quality, a few technical questions will be issued, if they are not responded he will not do anything either, he simply will treat you as that rank, and it will fall apart on its own.

 

[lechien]

I don't agree either with that kind of test, but he is a 7th degree blackbelt, who are you to question him?


They do certify the blacks, try learning more

The attitude of never questionning the high ranks. what a BS? This is the reason why Japanese MAs all died out and the reason why they are still doing certain types of training that are useless = never question the high degrees!!

Going around an giving stripes and belt to students that do NOT belong to your association is DISRESPECTFUL.

IBJJF charges money for them to certify your BB and you do need the IBJJF at all. Only now, they are enforcing it so they can make more money.

You need to learn more about BJJ next time.