Law Our Respect for Marriage Act: Signed into law 12/13/22

[terrapin]

Who's Paul?

Thankfully that is a matter between the vicar/priest and the couple wishing to get married. It doesn't affect you or I at all.

paul is the main author in the new testament who spoke adamantly about homosexuality. i am interested because im christian and so this whole issue really has my attention.

 

[Deorum]

As part of the recent Dobbs decision, Pelosi and house democrats have decided to put two bill through, one about contraception and the other (this thread) to codify interracial and gay marriage into federal law. This is in reaction to the idea Loving v Virginia and/ or Obergefell v. Hodges cases being overturned at the SCOTUS.


House passes bill to protect same-sex marriage in effort to counter Supreme Court
CNN


Unsure if this goes anywhere in the senate but if it did and passed, this could signal that we truly are seeing Congress become more active in reaction to the courts decisions with their own follow up legislation. This isn’t to say the bill passing would be equivalent to the current law of the land with the past rulings which ruled these as rights whereas a federal law could just being overturned in the future. Look like Feinstein put out a senate version just today.

Congress bill overview

So is Shoomer bringing it to the floor, or what.

Who's Paul?

 

[fingercuffs]

paul is the main author in the new testament who spoke adamantly about homosexuality. i am interested because im christian and so this whole issue really has my attention.

Jesus had two dads, I'm sure God wouldn't mind.

 

[ElKarlo]

Just realized I never responded. Apologies.



Well sure, but many straight marriages could be hedonistic in origin as well. You think the 60 year old moneybags marrying the 22 year old stripper is an example of soulmates finally reaching eachother?



I don't really separate gay people from straight people in too many ways, other than who they're attracted to. I don't see it as one group mimicking another either, by wanting to be married. I respect your view on what marriage is, but my personal view on marriage is very different. I believe the "sacredness" of marriage is decided by the two (or more) people in it. Let me ask you, are you married? If so, do you feel that allowing gays to marry will somehow take away from the importance of your marriage or make it any less special?

No worries

I’d say the old guy and stripper would be better off with a CU than marriage. As they are not entering the marriage under the assumption of taking care of each other and raising a family. I’d also suspect that most churches would not officiate a marriage between them.
It doesn’t take away from my marriage. The problem is when you devalue something or when you water it down it loses its meaning. When society no longer value something the same way It did before,than problems can arise. As with other things as well for instance martial arts, it may not matter that anybody and their mother can get a black belt, but eventually that will impact the martial arts community and impact you as well.
Society maintaining its cohesion is based upon a value system. If you undervalued the system then you’ll see cracks. And just like in Martial arts letting anybody and everybody get married devalues it.

 

[ElKarlo]

I don't think the government can compel churches etc to do a gay marriage, I'm not sure gay people would want to get married in a church anyway generally speaking.

It gets weird fast
https://m.republicworld.com/world-n...couples-asks-church-to-tackle-homophobia.html
As long as the govt doesn’t mandate that a church be obligated to marry them or recognize their marriages, in ok with it

 

[terrapin]

Jesus had two dads, I'm sure God wouldn't mind.

That's the thing though... Paul was directly touched by Jesus in a profound way and I just have a hard time believing that Paul got it wrong in this case. Jesus himself had no problem bucking tradition, he did it all the time, heck an entirely new religion was formed because of him and yet he never undid that prohibition.

I don't mean to sound certain though... it's really not possible to be certain about that issue in regards to what Jesus exactly thought about it.

But a Prohibition against male homosexuality seems entirely in line with jesus's thoughts on sex and marriage and certainly is entirely in line with the judaic tradition. So my guess is that homosexuality would still be prohibited if they had asked Jesus directly about it.

 

[Lead]

So is Shoomer bringing it to the floor, or what.

This is the last week before the august recess and they have way too much other shit they are trying to put through. Like five bills (Chip bill, smaller version of BBB for prescription drugs, veteran bill, etc). This one likely will be a fall vote as it came as a surprise to Schumer when it originally got voted on in the house along with the contraception bill.

 

[oldshadow]

Be interested as this could also make 1 cousin marriage legal in all 50 states. Not force the state to allow 1st cousin marriage in there state to be legal but if performed legally in another state to force them to honor it.

 

[Kirra]

paul is the main author in the new testament who spoke adamantly about homosexuality. i am interested because im christian and so this whole issue really has my attention.

Imagine basing your beliefs on what some dude 2000 years ago though instead of thinking for yourself. And that dude wasn't even Jesus.



I guarantee you that Jesus's words on that topic have been taken greatly out of context.

 

[terrapin]

Imagine basing your beliefs on what some dude 2000 years ago though instead of thinking for yourself. And that dude wasn't even Jesus.



I guarantee you that Jesus's words on that topic have been taken greatly out of context.

yeah that would be weird doing that without thinking for yourself but i haven't done that. ive given it many hours of thought actually.

what did jesus say on the topic you disagree with. (im VERY curious what you think you know here).

 

[PainIsLIfe]

States have to follow Federal law. Up to this point abortion has been legal nationwide based on a SCOTUS ruling. Now that the new members of the court have basically annulled that ruling only making a Federal law would supercede states' rights to make their own decision on the topic.

Sure, but Congress still can't make a law that they don’t have authority to make - the Missouri Compromise and Chinese Acts come to mind as federal laws that were ruled unconstitutional.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

yeah that would be weird doing that without thinking for yourself but i haven't done that. ive given it many hours of thought actually.

what did jesus say on the topic you disagree with. (im VERY curious what you think you know here).

Jesus said that blessed is the one who becomes a eunuch for the kingdoms sake.

That applies to more than gays, but clearly says that one should abstain from relations that God considers sinful.

 

[terrapin]

Jesus said that blessed is the one who becomes a eunuch for the kingdoms sake.

That applies to more than gays, but clearly says that one should abstain from relations that God considers sinful.

@Kirra is furiously Google searching Jesus words on the topic now. He doesn't know what they are but is still very sure they have been taken out of context.

 

[Deorum]

Jesus had two dads, I'm sure God wouldn't mind.

But a Prohibition against male homosexuality seems entirely in line with jesus's thoughts on sex and marriage and certainly is entirely in line with the judaic tradition. So

Imagine basing your beliefs on what some dude 2000 years ago though instead of thinking for yourself. And that dude wasn't even Jesus.



I guarantee you that Jesus's words on that topic have been taken greatly out of context.

Jesus said that blessed is the one who becomes a eunuch for the kingdoms sake. That applies to more than gays, but clearly says that one should abstain from relations that God considers sinful.

I've always imagined that directly asking Jesus about gay sexual relations would result in a blank stare betrayed by very subtle disappointment, lol. I was far more stressed and worried (fucking terrified) about what my daddy would think about it than God tbh.

 

[fingercuffs]

I've always imagined that directly asking Jesus about gay sexual relations would result in a blank stare betrayed by very subtle disappointment, lol. I was far more stressed and worried (fucking terrified) about what my daddy would think about it than God tbh.

He also put a g-spot up your asses, surely it was meant to be enjoyed.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I've always imagined that directly asking Jesus about gay sexual relations would result in a blank stare betrayed by very subtle disappointment, lol. I was far more stressed and worried (fucking terrified) about what my daddy would think about it than God tbh.

Yeah, he wouldn't have understood the concept of homosexuality (there'd be a whole history he'd have to learn first, and it would be tough to get his head around it). Sex with men, sure. Might have indulged himself, even. But it was considered sinful for the same reason that masturbation was sinful--wasting precious body fluids. Sexual identity is a very new and weird idea in the history of humanity (that is, it's around a century old only and very alien to people's thinking for 99% of our history).

 

[terrapin]

Yeah, he wouldn't have understood the concept of homosexuality (there'd be a whole history he'd have to learn first, and it would be tough to get his head around it). Sex with men, sure. Might have indulged himself, even. But it was considered sinful for the same reason that masturbation was sinful--wasting precious body fluids. Sexual identity is a very new and weird idea in the history of humanity (that is, it's around a century old only and very alien to people's thinking for 99% of our history).

That's interesting seeing as how he would have had Greece and Rome to draw from each of them giving Jesus a plethora of homosexual types to consider including a loving relationship between two men and all of the other pagan cultures who engaged in various kinds of homosexuality and a long line of judaic tradition prohibiting all of those kinds in favor of a very strict monogamy and heterosexuality.

If you add to that his tightening of the restrictions on heterosexuality, his tightening of the restrictions on sexuality and infidelity and on marriage I think it is you who is making things up in a faith-based attempt to make an argument. Certainly nothing you have just said is even hinted at in the New testament.

One also wonders how Peter and Paul could have got it so wrong having both known Jesus personally.

The fact is an incredibly strict view on sexuality is completely in line with jesus's view of humanity and for very good reasons that really don't have much to do with sex at all. What is really at stake here is a laser focused and quite profound commitment to attaining the kingdom of heaven in this life and becoming one with God in this life. Sexuality is just one of many things that can compete for the will and desire for the kingdom of heaven that is required for attaining Union.

Male homosexuality in particular seems uniquely poised to pull a person away from that laser focus and to pull entire communities of men away from that focus.

@Deorum

 

[Kirra]

@Kirra is furiously Google searching Jesus words on the topic now. He doesn't know what they are but is still very sure they have been taken out of context.

I remember looking it up earlier and not really getting anywhere.

Not that it matters, because unless Jesus himself wrote it down, there are going to be misinterpretations.

 

[terrapin]

I've always imagined that directly asking Jesus about gay sexual relations would result in a blank stare betrayed by very subtle disappointment, lol. I was far more stressed and worried (fucking terrified) about what my daddy would think about it than God tbh.

You can imagine that if you want but he answered a ton of other questions that would seem less important to my way of thinking and gave deep answers to them.

The fact is a very strict view of sexuality is what Jesus taught and is entirely in line with the entire judaic tradition and to pretend that Jesus had not been exposed to various kinds of homosexuality when he was centered in Rome... Greece was right around the corner and there were other pagan cultures all around them practicing various types is absurd.

The fact is sexuality is just one of those human drives that can compete with the will and desire for Union with God that is required to get the kind of power and position Jesus had and held and he called All of humanity to the same place.

It's pretty simple and entirely in line with the entire judeaic and Christian tradition if you really think about it.

I'm not saying that's right, I'm not saying there's no other way, I'm not saying there are no other religions that are useful that don't have these kinds of prohibitions.... what I am saying is it's entirely in line with everything Jesus said to think he thought so to.

@Deorum also for what it's worth I think a gay person and a gay couple can attain the kingdom of heaven quite easily I think the prohibition against homosexuality is because most won't. Ive thought about this endlessly and it's just my ideas here but I've noticed when there is a prohibition in the New Testament there is a really good reason for it and if you follow that prohibition in an authentic way and are brought to the good it gives you you come to see the wisdom in it later.

I think two men in love faithful to one another and not sleeping around and moving towards Union with God through prayer and meditation is an easy entrance into heaven for those two gay men.

But that is not what we will see for the majority of gay men as you well know and that is the problem as far as I can tell.

 

[terrapin]

I remember looking it up earlier and not really getting anywhere.

Not that it matters, because unless Jesus himself wrote it down, there are going to be misinterpretations.

You said that the words of Jesus have been warped or exaggerated kirra on this topic. Which words are those specifically? I'm asking because in the entirety of the New testament Jesus makes no comment on the subject at all so I'm just wondering what special knowledge you are privy to that none of the rest of us Christians have ever heard of.