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Ortega/Volkanovski 3rd round scrap - question for people who train

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by kabanos, Sep 27, 2021.

  1. kabanos Green Belt

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    I've never trained BJJ, nor any ground game really. I do have a glimpse what does it feel like to doge a punch and counter, or get hit with an uppercut etc, so when I watch a fight I understand and feel whats happening. I guess people who train know what I mean, it's a different feeling if you've experienced what you watch. Like me watching some Adesanya moves, or Anderson years ago - it just gives the body feel how good they are, how much superior they are then anything I ever saw in the gym and on top of this - performed in an actual fight.

    So for people who do train BJJ - how did you feel that sub attempts and volks escapes? Was it a masterpiece for you, or rather something that happens in training. Would you give it a 10/10?
     
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  2. wildchild88 Brown Belt

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    The guillotine was so fucking deep it was insane.. would have finished any other guy in the division. Will have to watch the triangle again, but it looked really deep at the time as well. The fact that Ortega got deep on three different subs, in a very instantaneous manner was very impressive.

    Volk didn't show any technical ability in escaping those subs, he is basically a superhuman made of granite, and essentially waited out / powered out of those submissions...

    We have guys at training like that, some guys are just built different and won't pass out / give up even if the sub is quite deep. Apparently Volk was dominating guys in his first days of training mma.. he's just a natural beast.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
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  3. rear naked ankle pick not very good poster

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    no need to train BJJ in 2021. That discipline was relevant until like 10 years ago, it's solved now and it's pretty much useless.
     
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  4. Sada555 Banned Banned

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    He said "Only" people who trained BBJ (Just Saying)

    You're welcome TS
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
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  5. 13Seconds Gold Belt

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    No, Ortegas guilliotine attempt is not something that usually happens in training or competition. His clamp on the neck was much quicker than the average sub attempt. They were on the feet and then Ortega was on his neck in like no time. That's freakish.

    Volks escape was basically toughness. Everything was locked up and i thought for sure Volk was done.
     
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  6. wildchild88 Brown Belt

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    Bjj is super super effective..
     
  7. Magnum1978 Silver Belt

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    It was a combination of being calm, solid technique by Volko, and some mistakes due to fatigue by Ortega. The mounted guillotine was the closest attempt. Excellent cardio played a big part as I'm sure he was in the verge of carotid artery closure on one side (perhaps both at times), where slight adjustments can avoid the choke coming on, partially or fully. Certainly there was 'toughness', but if a choke is on correctly, it doesn't matter how 'tough' you are, you go out. Cardio is probably the biggest factor there in how long you have with the amount of blood going to the brain and level of oxygenation you require to stay conscious (the fitter the better).

    Defense like that happens regularly in training. Craig Jones was in Volko's corner, and I'm sure in training or pre-fight, they went through many submission scenarios. It was a good escape, but not flawless. Volko was certainly in deep and did well to get out.

    This is coming from a first-degree BJJ black belt, but other BJJ guys may have slightly different opinions.
     
  8. Hazuki Ryo Purple Belt

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    Guillotine was tighter than the triangle choke. I think Volk was about to tap, because when it's fully in it's just a matter of seconds before you tap. You have the weight of the guy on top of you plus the deep choke and your head squeezed like a lemon. It's one of Rockhold's favourites and he always taps people from that. Fortunately for Volk he had a tiny opening which allowed him to breathe a little and get some space and then Ortega got tired. Shit was reaaaaally close
     
  9. cP6uH White Belt

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    Triangle was close, but Volk blocked it perfectly with his left hand. He created a post and didn't allow Ortega to get the left arm across. If Ortega managed to get that left arm across, it would get locked and probably end of the fight.
     
  10. Spath Black Belt

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    Plenty of good answers here already. I’d like to add that there were good escapes for every sub attempt. You don’t get out of a single submission attempt by Ortega if you don’t do the right things.

    Don’t mistake it for luck or toughness, even if both had something to do with him getting out of the chokes. Volkanovski knew what he was doing and had trained for those situations a lot.
     
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  11. JustBleed69 Touch-Butt Coral Belt

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    The guillotine and triangle were tight as shit.
    It's incredible how dangerous Ortega's guard is, he just latches submissions with absolute confidence. That's really the trick to his game. The things he does are so simple; it's just a guillotine! It's just a basic triangle. The difference is that he does not hesitate. He sees the opening and he goes for it with deadly intent.

    Volks escapes were a couple things,
    1. Determination and grit, tough to teach!
    2. Poise in dangerous spots (probably from all that training with Craig Jones)
    3. Little bit of know-how involved in getting out
    4. Ortega was tired and they were slippery with sweat

    I can't help but feel if it had been earlier in the fight and Ortega's arms/ legs hadn't been a bit burnt out he could've finished those subs.

    Both guys are absolute freaks!

    And to answer your question, no that shit is not common in training or in competition bjj
     
  12. ifindgifsforjackslack Purple Belt

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    The guillotine looked REALLY tight in retrospect, but I didn’t seem too worried in the moment, it’s a weird angle when mounted especially on a guy with folks stature,but when Volkonovski sat back on the triangle i got sonnen v Anderson vibes and panicked. I’ll need to watch again to actually see how he escaped it, it looked badddd
     
  13. Maori Brown Belt

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    Have to check, but I remember Volk scooting his hips and legs forward in the triangle which is what your meant to do.
     
  14. wildchild88 Brown Belt

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    I watched it.. Ortega didn't roll him over in the triangle properly, went kind of half way, leaving Alex in a position on his back / side where he could find space to slip out / escape.
     
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  15. Maori Brown Belt

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    Looked like Volk was getting his right leg forward & Brian hooked it. Looks like it was Brians fault he didnt land it.
    37B7C4ED-C611-4B09-8664-536831536969.jpeg
     
  16. randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    when the guillotine got slapped on i was certain he wouldn't tap, but was expecting him to go unconscious. it looked tight as hell.

    as far as the triangle goes, brian did pretty much everything right, but his left leg didn't quite slide into the side of volkanovski's neck like you need it to, alex had just enough space to stay conscious. i mean we're talking literally moving an inch and it syncs in there. ortega was really close to getting him.

    of course, it's easy to comment on all that when you're sitting on your couch. ortega had been fighting a world champion for like 13 minutes at that point, mostly taking a beating. it's a testament to his skill that he even got that close with those attempts. he's sharp.
     
  17. HockeyBjj Putting on the foil

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    That guillotine was so tight, I’d like to see an mri of Volk’s neck. I don’t believe his carotid arteries are where a normal human’s are. No idea how he didn’t pass out.

    the guillotine was in long too. No technical escape. He just put pressure back on Ortega’s grip until the grip strength failed. But it was like 15 seconds and a Volkanovski should have been unconscious by then.

    The triangle was good but not nearly as tight. Volk did a good technical defense of this one. He didn’t let his arm go across ortegas body. And he kept them compressed together instead of allowing Ortega to posture up and get enough pressure to finish it without arm across. Then Volk got pressure on the knee lock.

    the Darce attempt at the end I just don’t think Ortega had the gas left to get a proper squeeze in. It looked cool and setup was impressive but it was loose the whole time
     
  18. Oblivian Aging Platinum Member

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    A lot of people need to watch Ortega vs. Keoni Koch. I know it's early in Ortega's career, but he was still known for his BJJ back then. He misses a lot of sub attempts and loses position quite often. I don't think Ortega is a guy that's going to hit every sub he has someone in. He fishes for a lot of subs and chains together. Even Rener was saying in the corner "if you miss the first one, get the second". I think people overrate Ortega's bjj a bit, although it is still excellent. We've seen him in other UFC fights give up position quite a bit as well.
     
  19. Oblivian Aging Platinum Member

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    I don't think he was in the best position on top to get the squeeze he wanted on the mounted guillotine. You can get a bit of space. We saw Merab hold on for a LONG time against Simon. I think a lot of guys would have tapped assuming they were about to go out though.
     
  20. HockeyBjj Putting on the foil

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    Volkanovski definitely went into this fight with an attitude of he was never going to tap no matter what. It wasn't an option.

    Ortega was going to need to put him fully unconscious to win the belt
     
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