O'Reilly gets owned

[Drenalin]

i dont see how thats related to this conversation.

what youre describing may happen to some degree. however, there is also a legitimate economic theory that providing the poorest people with aid actually helps everyone. im not sure that i agree, but its at the very least debatable. those people will not horde their money, and will immediately spend it since they probably have no choice. good for the economy. theyre less desperate, and people who arent as desperate likely will not be as attracted to crime. so to chalk aid up as an attempt to get votes is overly simplistic, and dishonest.

it would be like if i accused republicans of getting the common man's vote by starting the culture war in the 70's and 80's. cant win over poor whites with your policies? try using jesus. very plausible, but also too simplistic and probably a little unfair on many counts.

and also, theres a lot of evidence suggesting that "welfare" is actually given more often to people who do have jobs....theyre simply underemployed.

I'm not a democrat or a republican. I'm a realist. I don't believe in political parties. I believe in ideas based on a fair judgement of right & wrong.

Here's the problem with welfare summed up for ya.

There are too many people in the wagon & not enough people pulling the wagon.

Where i live, I'm surrounded by welfare people. So I know the truth about welfare. I see it daily... don't get me started on it

 

[JonnyRingo84]

I'm not a democrat or a republican. I'm a realist. I don't believe in political parties. I believe in ideas based on a fair judgement of right & wrong.

Here's the problem with welfare summed up for ya.

There are too many people in the wagon & not enough people pulling the wagon.

Where i live, I'm surrounded by welfare people. So I know the truth about welfare. I see it daily... don't get me started on it

its only the people who shouldnt be on it that will catch your notice, though. its kinda like referees....theyre not noticed until youre pissed at them.

i might agree that there is too much aid, or maybe that it is distributed incorrectly. the notion that the only reason its done though is to get votes, is silly. thats a bonus for some im sure, but there are legitimate reasons to provide aid....there are even plausible selfish interests to provide aid.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Directly related to the subject.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi-on-the-summer-of-the-media-shill-w434484

A real good piece on the state of news reporting by Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone, "Summer of Shill."

Also helps Taibbi is a very good journalist. IMO of course.

 

[pinger]

I miss Hunter S Thompson.

 

[El anciano]

Not sure how people like him and Hannity are even allowed to be on tv. They go on and actively preach hate, lie, and ultimately do nothing to add value to society. I am for free speech but I would like to see some laws in place that would protect us from stuff like this. At least limit it to paid cable

 

[ShadowRun]

Not sure how people like him and Hannity are even allowed to be on tv. They go on and actively preach hate, lie, and ultimately do nothing to add value to society. I am for free speech but I would like to see some laws in place that would protect us from stuff like this. At least limit it to paid cable

Isn't foxnews on paid cable ?

 

[clmetal]

This video was obviously edited to make it look like he is really hostile. So bill ruined the news and we'll prove it by showing a carefully edited video. Remember nbc editing Zimmermans 911 call or obama changing the orlando shooters words? . Same goal

 

[clmetal]

Directly related to the subject.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi-on-the-summer-of-the-media-shill-w434484

A real good piece on the state of news reporting by Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone, "Summer of Shill."

Also helps Taibbi is a very good journalist. IMO of course.

Not too similar. I like how the media feels they have a moral obligation to get Hillary elected. I agree they are brushing over damning stories about her. Having borders or enforcing our current immigration laws now means Hitler.

Trump is much more about voters than Fox or or the gop establishment. He certainly doesn't have the insiders, all the billionaires are for Hillsry. Hillary has an ad out showing people at fox doubting trump; they are hardly a shill for him.

Trump is considered so dangerous that many journalists are beginning to be concerned that admitting the truth of negative reports of any kind about the Democrats might make them complicit in the election of the American Hitler.

 

[Easy The Great]

I agree. Fox has been trash for many years and now we are seeing the leftist media go down the same path (probably in a worse fashion than even fox).

CNN is the worst fucking news outlet ever

 

[Jack Reacheround]

But you just said real journalism has largely been killed. How can something be killed but not be dead? And what is the "minority of political media"?

Is this a serious question? Let's say you are in battle, in a platoon of 12 men. 10 of the men get killed. That platoon is mostly dead.
And believe it or not, the word minority is not synonymous with black people. It literally means, not the majority.

 

[n...not crazy]

What does "owned" mean? It's a testy conversation, big deal. Nobody got owned.

 

[djacobox372]

I'm not a democrat or a republican. I'm a realist. I don't believe in political parties. I believe in ideas based on a fair judgement of right & wrong.

Here's the problem with welfare summed up for ya.

There are too many people in the wagon & not enough people pulling the wagon.

Where i live, I'm surrounded by welfare people. So I know the truth about welfare. I see it daily... don't get me started on it

Why should humans aspire to pull wagons? Sooner or later even you won't be necessary to pull a wagon, a robot will do it better. Why should we keep inventing useless wagons to pull?

For example, driverless trucks will replace about 500 billion in blue-collar jobs in the next decade. The amount of wealth and riches in the country wont go down (it will probably go up), so why should we have to find new "work" for all those displace jobs? Sooner or later it gets a little ridiculous to keep working everybody so hard.

Capitalism needs to adjust or we need to find another system that deals with automation and improved productivity in a more equitable fashion.

 

[Drenalin]

Why should humans aspire to pull wagons? Sooner or later even you won't be necessary to pull a wagon, a robot will do it better. Why should we keep inventing useless wagons to pull?

For example, driverless trucks will replace about 500 billion in blue-collar jobs in the next decade. The amount of wealth and riches in the country wont go down (it will probably go up), so why should we have to find new "work" for all those displace jobs? Sooner or later it gets a little ridiculous to keep working everybody so hard.

Capitalism needs to adjust or we need to find another system that deals with automation and improved productivity in a more equitable fashion.

I was referring to all of the people who are living off of tax money but not paying in

 

[Rational Poster]

But you just said real journalism has largely been killed. How can something be killed but not be dead? And what is the "minority of political media"?

How to make semantic arguments because you're a dickhead 101

-By TheComebackKid.

 

[ultramanhyata]

"Finally, the novelist must always tell the truth as he understands it while the politician must never give the game away. Those who have done both comprise a very short list indeed. The fact that I was never even a candidate for the list had to do with a choice made at twenty that entirely changed my life. " G. Vidal

What did Vidal mean by this? He was, in fact, a novelist who ran for political office. Twice.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Not sure how people like him and Hannity are even allowed to be on tv. They go on and actively preach hate, lie, and ultimately do nothing to add value to society. I am for free speech but I would like to see some laws in place that would protect us from stuff like this. At least limit it to paid cable

You lie. They speak the truth. The white man can't get a fair shake in this country with all this affirmative blacktion, and Mexicans raping our daughters. When are you going to wake up and realize that we're only a few years away from having pure white bloodlines being completely extinct.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Real journalism is definitely dying. From old school journalists I've talked to about this, the major turning points were:

1. The Pentagon embedding journalists with troops during the Gulf War. All of a sudden journalists couldn't report objectively and started telling news stories glorifyng the troops keeping them safe. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, except then it led to an atmosphere where the government's actions were no longer scrutinized and questioned like in Vietnam. We might not agree as to whether or not it happened under Obama or Dubya, but I think most of us will agree we reached a crisis point with this.

2. The 24/7 news channel. Stories must be made where there are none and they must be told as entertainment.

3. The internet, the death of print newspapers and the inability to get paid to be a real journalist. In non-traditional news outlets (documentaries, the internet) it can be just as profitable (or more profitable) to tell lies as it is to tell the truth.

4. All media owned by a handful of people.

I don't know that I buy that journalism is getting worse (definitely, as an industry, it's weakening). But a couple of big things that have changed with political journalism in particular that you didn't mention are a huge increase in distrust of the mainstream media among the right, and the somewhat associated breakdown of norms relating to media credibility. What I mean is that in the past, if a politician or someone involved in politics said something that was false, the media could call them on it, and the person would be embarrassed and retract (and, more importantly, be intimidated enough by that possibility that they would make an effort not to say provably untrue things). But as openly partisan sources have gained more credibility than the mainstream media on the right, people have figured out that they can say whatever they want, and the media is A) generally too intimidated to call them on it, and B) not likely to be trusted by their voters if they do call them on it. Trump is exploiting that hole to an unprecedented extent, but so, in their times, did Bush 43 and Romney.

And I know that nutters will think that that's a partisan point, but it's not. There's no left-wing news source that is more trusted than the mainstream media on the left, there's no equivalent to right-wing talk radio on the left, and the result is this:

 

[heloder]

How can something be killed but not be dead?

That is not dead which can eternal lie.

 

[RockstarChris]

Its like when a journalist starts his question off with "Well obviously...."

 

[Dalarna3]

Real journalism is definitely dying. From old school journalists I've talked to about this, the major turning points were:

1. The Pentagon embedding journalists with troops during the Gulf War. All of a sudden journalists couldn't report objectively and started telling news stories glorifyng the troops keeping them safe. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, except then it led to an atmosphere where the government's actions were no longer scrutinized and questioned like in Vietnam. We might not agree as to whether or not it happened under Obama or Dubya, but I think most of us will agree we reached a crisis point with this.

2. The 24/7 news channel. Stories must be made where there are none and they must be told as entertainment.

3. The internet, the death of print newspapers and the inability to get paid to be a real journalist. In non-traditional news outlets (documentaries, the internet) it can be just as profitable (or more profitable) to tell lies as it is to tell the truth.

4. All media owned by a handful of people.

Journalists weren't embedded in Vietnam? Huh....