Opinion Opposing section 8 housing is racist?

[blaseblah]

Is there a moral imperative to not make economic choices that negatively affect other people?

TS believes so

 

[blaseblah]

Gotta love how it's "jacking up the cost of living" and not increasing property values. Yeah, fuck them for not committing crime to keep property values low. Regular people deal drugs and shoot each other to keep rent low, cause ya know, regular people are more concerned with cheap rent in crime infested areas than safe neighborhoods where businesses can operate.

Obviously you don't live in Cali. We are in need of cheaper housing.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Who should provide that cheaper housing?

I don't see much incentive from an investment perspective to invest in properties with the hope that I will get a reasonable return if I rent them out cheaply.

This would be my view for any location, not just the example you gave with California.

 

[Jkillah]

Obviously you don't live in Cali. We are in need of cheaper housing.

Because California is full. You could move to somewhere that is not California and you would be fine. There is a ton of affordable housing in this country. You do not need someone else to pay for part of your housing. I am sure the weather in California is lovely and you feel entitled to live there, but you could always just live somewhere else.

 

[blaseblah]

Because California is full.

All it took was one sentence to expose you know nothing about Cali.

 

[Jkillah]

All it took was one sentence to expose you know nothing about Cali.

Parts of California are extremely full. Hence the rediculous traffic. I'm sure not every square inch of the entire state is full.

That's not the point I was making though. The point I was making was that housing prices in California are nothing to bitch about. There is an abundance of affordable housing in this country. Move to one of the many affordable areas of this country if you can't afford where you live. Don't bitch or expect someone else to pay for your housing.

 

[genecop]

I know people who legitimately need it, they have real issues for whatever reasons..I also live in a nice neighborhood that would not go for sec 8 housing...they can be designed and located in more commercial type areas...

 

[High Altitude]

Because California is full. You could move to somewhere that is not California and you would be fine. There is a ton of affordable housing in this country. You do not need someone else to pay for part of your housing. I am sure the weather in California is lovely and you feel entitled to live there, but you could always just live somewhere else.

Exactly.

I was born and raised in SoCal.

Moved out of CA eventually.

Everybody is free to improve themselves, most don't bother.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Parts of California are extremely full. Hence the rediculous traffic. I'm sure not every square inch of the entire state is full.

That's not the point I was making though. The point I was making was that housing prices in California are nothing to bitch about. There is an abundance of affordable housing in this country. Move to one of the many affordable areas of this country if you can't afford where you live. Don't bitch or expect someone else to pay for your housing.

I knew the point you were trying to make.
I agree. People are free to move, but many refuse to do it.

I wouldn't move to anyplace I couldn't afford to live.
Being a peasant in paradise would be terrible.

The flip side to that is that if I lived someplace that became too expensive for me to afford, I would move to a more affordable place.

For the same reason. Being a peasant anywhere would be terrible.

Lower income level in one location could be middle class in another location.

I'd look into it.

 

[ineverpost]

If there is section 8 in your neighborhood, it means you aren't wealthy enough to get away from section 8 housing. Better pull yourself up by the straps harder.

 

[esotamoc]

It's a response to gentrification. Affluent white people moving to urban areas and jacking up the cost of living to where regular people can't afford it.

 

[giusti825]

Obviously you don't live in Cali. We are in need of cheaper housing.

This right here. In the shittiest parts of the bronx, studio apartments are renting for $1600 a month.

Even with the new $15 minimum wage, after taxes, workers cant afford that. A studio apartment in buildings in the worst part of town are unaffordable to full time workers.

This should never be the case.

However, I can understand how some people dont understand this.

I lived in western PA for a year and a half. Mortgages for a 4 bedroom home out there were under $400 a month. Of course to them it would look completely irresponsible for workers not to save money and invest. They live in a completely different economic reality.

I remember the first time i ran a credit application out there. It was for a 21 year old couple earning under $10/hr each. They had already paid off their home. Coming from NYC, I was completely shocked. In NYC, a low wage couple would never be able to own a home. The property taxes alone would be $12,000 - $19,000 a year.

These numbers dont make sense.

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/monessen-pa?compare=bronx-county-ny

 

[ElKarlo]

This right here. In the shittiest parts of the bronx, studio apartments are renting for $1600 a month.

Even with the new $15 minimum wage, after taxes, workers cant afford that. A studio apartment in buildings in the worst part of town are unaffordable to full time workers.

This should never be the case.

However, I can understand how some people dont understand this.

I lived in western PA for a year and a half. Mortgages for a 4 bedroom home out there were under $400 a month. Of course to them it would look completely irresponsible for workers not to save money and invest. They live in a completely different economic reality.

I remember the first time i ran a credit application out there. It was for a 21 year old couple earning under $10/hr each. They had already paid off their home. Coming from NYC, I was completely shocked. In NYC, a low wage couple would never be able to own a home. The property taxes alone would be $12,000 - $19,000 a year.

These numbers dont make sense.

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/monessen-pa?compare=bronx-county-ny

I agree and come from the DC area. Housing is unreasonable in many areas. That said section 8 isn't a viable answer as it just spreads ghetto like cancer. There has to be a different way

 

[Here's the thing]

Is there a moral imperative to not make economic choices that negatively affect other people?

There's a moral imperative to ignore race and make make laws/policies that give everyone the same opportunity, regardless of their race. Making enough money to live in a nice neighborhood is something anyone can do if they are smart and work hard. Punishing the hard working, and successful people by putting shitty, low-rent, section 8 housing in their neighborhood is wrong. That's especially true when you're doing it based on what you think a neighborhood's racial makeup should be. Race should not be a factor.

But you liberal scumbags only care about creating your little utopian world of equality, where everybody gets what they want, and everything is fair. A place where nobody't feelings ever get hurt. But life isn't fair. And when the government tries to make it fair, by forcing a person's race to be the primary decider of what policy should be, things only get worse.

 

[superpunch]

There was a sherdogger on here that called me racist for suggesting that government housing be located far far away from nice areas.

I think government housing should exist, but it should be very far away and limited to remote areas where no one wants to live. Like next to landfills for example. The purpose of it would be to provide the minimum social safety net while minimizing the harm these people cause to the rest of the population. This would dramatically improve cities and make them much safer and more hospital to live.

So old ladies and people too disabled to work should have to live next to garbage dumps?

Republicans, man.

 

[Captain Davis]

Because California is full. You could move to somewhere that is not California and you would be fine. There is a ton of affordable housing in this country. You do not need someone else to pay for part of your housing. I am sure the weather in California is lovely and you feel entitled to live there, but you could always just live somewhere else.

This is the core issue with the “its not fair” group. They expect to be accommodated instead of putting in the work for themselves. This country gives us opportunity, not guarantees.

 

[Captain Davis]

So old ladies and people too disabled to work should have to live next to garbage dumps?

Republicans, man.

I’d love to see the statistics of old ladies and the disabled, compared to able bodied adults living in Section 8 or projects.

 

[giusti825]

I agree and come from the DC area. Housing is unreasonable in many areas. That said section 8 isn't a viable answer as it just spreads ghetto like cancer. There has to be a different way

One of the biggest problems with Section 8 is that it artificially inflates rent prices. Landlords wouldn't charge $1600 a month for a studio if that wasn't the max amount a section 8 voucher would pay. In a sense, Section 8 forces the spread for the need for section 8.

I think the government should just buy buildings outright from landlords, give them slightly above market value and house the low income for 30% of their net earnings. But they should spread it out. Putting all the low income in one neighborhood concentrates poverty. It should be various buildings throughout the city.

Whats currently happening is landlords with more than six units in a building will almost by default set their rents to the section 8 maximums. Its a scam. The section 8 vouchers in the bronx have created a situation where way too large a portion of the city is dependent on vouchers because the wages in the bronx cant reasonably pay for housing. The price of the apartments doesn't reflect their market value or correlate in the slightest with the wages.

So we have a situation where investors are getting into the practice of making new buildings with the intent of exlcusively renting to section 8 voucher holder so they can get the government to give them way over market value.

if section 8 were to go away in the bronx, rental prices would be cut in half overnight. Landlords would be forced to choose between having a bunch of empty apartments or making reasonable rental prices given the wages of the workers in the area.

I think within 10 years, almost everyone living in central and south bronx will need a voucher even with 2 jobs. The voucher values increase faster than wages and faster than the market value of the apartments. I honestly think its all a huge kickback scam.

The "housing market" i.e. home prices are used as an economic success marker. That shit makes absolutely no sense if nobody can afford an apartment without a government subsidy. Its like using the stock market in 2020 as a measure of the economy, when 88% of stocks are owned by the top 10%. Sure, it looks nice that the dow is at 19000, but that doesnt accurately reflect reality at all for 90% of society.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I’d love to see the statistics of old ladies and the disabled, compared to able bodied adults living in Section 8 or projects.

Fair point.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that old ladies and the disabled don't make up the majority of the population group in section 8 housing.

On that topic.

For those that are fans of this.
There is nothing stopping people from buying property and renting it out under Section 8.

I wonder how many supporters of this are actually putting their money where their mouth is.

To me it would be a terrible investment.

However, somebody has to put their money down and help the old ladies and the disabled.

 

[Corn Pop Hombre]

Those who embrace it don't actually live in areas where it's implemented. We had a lengthy thread on this a few days ago and many many posters had horrifying stories of their once livable neighborhoods becoming shitholes very quickly to the point they had to move to escape it. Imagine working hard in life to provide for your family all so that one day that safety and security goes out the window through no fault of your own.

"I hate poor people. Wahhhh wahhhhh. " stfu