Opinions on thai clinch when wrestling?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by metalbeat, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. metalbeat

    metalbeat White Belt

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    We have no-gi twice a week at my school and we always start standing. Often times if my opponent is leaning over a lot or is a lot smaller than me I will use a Thai clinch to break their posture to look for various takedowns and back takes.

    The problem I am having is some of the upper belts at my school have said that this isn't really a legitimate wrestling move and I have heard it leaves you to open to double legs. So long story short, is this a legitimate technique that could be used in comp or should I stop looking for it?
     
  2. RTD1

    RTD1 Blue Belt

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    This isn't TMA where there are unbreakable rules set forth by the founders of the art. Try it out and see what works for you. Put someone in a Thai clinch and have them try and take you down. Work it against resistance. Modify it if necessary. If it can't be modified, discard it. But ultimately you need to figure out whether or not you can make something work and there's only one way to find out.
     
  3. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I'm not a big fan of it for sub grappling, there just isn't a lot of offense from there, especially if you're standing tall like you would in Thai boxing. When people do that to me I generally don't have a very hard time dropping under it and hitting a shot. Without the threat of knees to keep me from changing levels you really don't have much defense against shots.
     
  4. Osstopher McGi

    Osstopher McGi Green Belt

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    When people use it on me I go straight to a bearhug takedown every time. If you can make it work for you, and are pretty aware of the options your opponent is gonna have off of it when you use it, then go with what works I suppose.

    My .02, I'm not a very knowledgable grappler though.
     
  5. AnOddParadigm

    AnOddParadigm Blue Belt

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    True- but the sport of wrestling has been around for a long time and you want to take advantage of that evolution and not try to figure out things from scratch. Using a thai clinch in grappling/wrestling sport where knee strikes aren't allowed is like trying to hold a baseball bat upside down- sure, you can hit a ball- but you are going to suck.
     
  6. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    A Thai clinch in wrestling will literally stop you from doing any takedowns. Not being hyperbolic here, there are zero takedowns you can hit from a Thai clinch.

    That being said, I have seen some BJJ guys do a decent job at stopping takedowns from other BJJ'ers with a Thai clinch.
     
  7. orangeclay

    orangeclay Orange Belt

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    Short answer- yes, you are vulnerable to double legs since the clinch pressure is more downward and so if your partner just goes downward then they can get the double. But that doesn't mean that it can't be part of your game. Fun part of sparring is trying stuff and seeing what works.

    I really dislike when someone tells me what I am doing -- that is succeeding in terms of the moment I am doing it -- isn't actually right. Since, to my mind, it is working. It is always works much better if someone just demonstrates how what I am doing is bad by tapping me, taking me down, or whatever else. If when you got the clinch, your partners get the double leg consistently, then this would not be a post at all since you would have your answer in live time.
     
  8. youngsteinel

    youngsteinel Silver Belt

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    A snap down? I've seen the heavies, maybe a 220 or two, go double collar for the snap down. Not saying it's great technique, but it's better than shooting for those guys.
     
  9. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Maybe at the heavies you will be able to snap a shitty guy down with double collars, but you cannot score with that. You will have to switch to something else such as a front headlock.
     
  10. youngsteinel

    youngsteinel Silver Belt

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    Yep, exactly. But if a guy is shitty enough to get snapped down with that, you probably don't need to use a front headlock to spin. Just an easy spin, don't even need to block the arm.
     
  11. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    Your wrestling advice and experience is light years ahead of mine.

    But, serious question.^
    Sasae? Kouchi gake? Sticker? Headlock throw(koshi guruma)?
    Or are they just possible on crappy grapplers? Relative

    Thanks for your informative posts.

    They'd be easier if you transitioned to different grips. I use it once inawhile as a way to stop his game momentum and as a jump point for different grips.
     
  12. November

    November Yellow Belt

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    my HS wrestling coach told me to use this once when I was up by 5 with short time left to avoid being thrown. Because I usually am always pummeling for underhooks, even when I'm up on points, where I can get thrown easily. It works alright if all your trying to do is stall, they can't really get past your forearms to set up a throw or a shot if you are strong in the position. If you are loose and stand up straight, you could get scored on with a throw or shot.
     
  13. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Like a said, you can slow someone down with a Thai clinch but cannot score. Kouchi gake, there is no way. You cannot attack the legs with both hands on the head. Physically, it is impossible to hit a koshi guruma with both hands on the head, as you need the arm.
     
  14. peregrine

    peregrine Kahuna Dog

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    My bad, I didn't mean holding and throwing from the two hands on head, more as a set up.
    The way I read my own post sounds badly written. Thanks for response though.
     
  15. Aikidoka

    Aikidoka Chief Troublemaker Double Yellow Card

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    It's not bad at all, you ARE open for takedowns, but work on your sprawling.
     
  16. The Colonel

    The Colonel Purple Belt

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    Like others have said, there isn't much offense you can do from there when there are no strikes. I will sometimes use it to hang my weight on a guy's neck to tire him out and screw with his posture. If they really fight to get their head back up I'll let them, go for a single or double. If they keep leaving their head low I switch to a front headlock and go for a half hatch or near side cradle if they go to a knee, something along those lines.

    I do think it is something to fool around and experiment with, especially if you are interested in any kind of self-defense applications, or just knowing how to escape from the hold, since we've seen high level MMA fighters who can't get out (Rich Franklin, Quinton Jackson etc.).
     
  17. doyourkegles22

    doyourkegles22 Blue Belt

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    I just mentioned this at the Judo thread. This happened against me at CSW last week. The guy even through a pretend knee. I don't know why but that pretend knee turned a switch on and I went semi comp mode. I guess it's because he was telling me he had me and would be throwing knees...in a grappling class.

    My shot doesn't have the spring it used to and at this point, I've done Judo a lot longer than I've wrestled.

    It's easy to break the grip by standing tall and angling your torso and pushing against the arm, which is what I did. I ended up throwing him with a HUGE Seoi Nage when he jumped on my back on a failed Osoto Gari, and the 2nd time was an Uchimata.

    The point is, they can't attack from the Thai clinch unless you have striking.
     
  18. NAKMUAY18

    NAKMUAY18 Brown Belt

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    Not if you do it properly. Control the crown of the head, squeeze the forearms together and use your elbows under the collarbones.
    If your oppo lowers his level for the double, you can frame out with your elbows and keep your hips away.

    The downside is that it's very easy to counter a double coller tie if you stand static in front of somebody. You have to "rag doll" your oppo to maintain position, if you let them set they can just cross face or shoulder roll and it's done.
     

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