International Ontario Considering Privatization to Deal with ER Crisis

[Orgasmo]

Looks like it's a typical Ontario Conservative playbook:

1. Get elected and purposely run the healthcare system to the ground.
2. Claims public system doesn't work and introduce privatization.
3. Get their rich donors to swoop in and pick up lucrative deals.

Ontario's health minister isn't ruling out privatization in health care as the government looks at ways to deal with a major staff shortage straining hospitals across the province. Sylvia Jones said the government is considering many ideas in an effort to keep emergency departments from closing.

When asked if the government is considering privatization, Jones said "all options are on the table." "I'm saying that there is innovation and opportunities here in Ontario, and we will explore those," she said at the legislature on Wednesday.

Emergency departments across Ontario have had to close for hours or days at a time this summer, which health-care officials say is due to a nurse staffing crisis. Some small rural hospitals have been hit harder than larger urban hospitals.

Ontario health minister won't rule out privatization as option to help ER crisis | CBC News

 

[Fake Doctor]

Looks like it's a typical Ontario Conservative playbook:

1. Get elected and purposely run the healthcare system to the ground.
2. Claims public system doesn't work and introduce privatization.
3. Get their rich donors to swoop in and pick up lucrative deals.

Ontario health minister won't rule out privatization as option to help ER crisis | CBC News

While I don't think outright privatization is the solution anywhere in Canada, our approach to public health care only keeps getting a pass from our citizens because Canadians are like seals trained to say "At least it is better than the American system!" any time someone points out that our system is mediocre to shit. Many of the best healthcare systems in the world mix public and private effectively and we don't even consider that maybe we should include more selective privatization to improve our mediocre outcomes.

 

[Snackbar]

#1 is spot on. We all know the healthcare system was absolutely incredible under Wynne, some say the best really.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

I don’t think a two tier system is a bad idea, but haven’t given it much thought. I think it could work if the private sector pays for their own facilities instead of renting from the province and is still bound by the same governance as government run hospitals. Like I said, I haven’t thought of it much.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

#1 is spot on. We all know the healthcare system was absolutely incredible under Wynne, some say the best really.

I can’t tell if you are serious or joking. I live in Toronto, so have always had access to speedy healthcare for the most part. I don’t think I have been to a hospital since Doug has been premier though.

 

[Bald1]

I remember the welfare diet proposition and how a can of tuna is only 90 cents, or some such crap from living in Ontario. Politicians will politician and propose all sorts unbalanced bullshit.

An option for privatized healthcare would be a welcomed thing. But, of course, that would create a two tiered system. Not like that doesn't already exist, but it would further deteriorate what we already have in place imo.

This conversation is above my pay grade but it's an important one. I mean, you'd think part of our Covid response would have been an effort to boost our healthcare system's capabilities, but from what I'm seeing that did not happen.

 

[Crono7]

Live in Ontario. Can confirm that our system is broken. Hours long wait in hospitals. Shit quality. Wait months to see specialists. So fucking slow.

My relatives in the states ask "why do you have to wait 3 days to get x ray results to know if you have a broken leg. Isn't that urgent?"

I'm amazed Americans can go to a hospital and in the same day get an x ray, MRI and get the results same day. Holy fuck.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Live in Ontario. Can confirm that our system is broken. Hours long wait in hospitals. Shit quality. Wait months to see specialists. So fucking slow.

My relatives in the states ask "why do you have to wait 3 days to get x ray results to know if you have a broken leg. Isn't that urgent?"

I'm amazed Americans can go to a hospital and in the same day get an x ray, MRI and get the results same day. Holy fuck.

I feel bad that your service isn’t that great. I took my kid for an X-ray on their foot years ago. Probably 8 years. Was out of the hospital with a cast in an hour. I put a knife in my hand on a Saturday night late bbqing and walked to emerg and was on my way home in an hour with stitches. I did have tj wait a couple months for an mri, but I could have gotten it earlier if I wasn’t picky with the times and location I would go to. But if I really needed one, I could go to buffalo and pay. Few hundred for one. I waited.

 

[badascan]

The idea of "free" and "universal" healthcare seems awesome but of course there are issues, like some we see in Canada's healthcare model.

Don't know about Canadian conservative playbooks but anytime "government" gets involved in a market it eventually becomes more fucked up. A truly "free" market should be the ideal where competition keeps rates in check and encourages advancement and innovation but of course it doesn't (or can't) exist...

 

[ElKarlo]

While I don't think outright privatization is the solution anywhere in Canada, our approach to public health care only keeps getting a pass from our citizens because Canadians are like seals trained to say "At least it is better than the American system!" any time someone points out that our system is mediocre to shit. Many of the best healthcare systems in the world mix public and private effectively and we don't even consider that maybe we should include more selective privatization to improve our mediocre outcomes.

I think an honest attempt at reform should be under taken. Who could actually do that? Good question

 

[ThaiSexPills]

I’d be fine with it if I wasn’t taking $800 a week off each pay to income tax.

Surely, I could take my 40k a year and find something better. Our healthcare nationwide is a disgrace, as is anything the government is left to run.

Hopefully, I do not die in a waiting room someday.

 

[Halifax]

While I don't think outright privatization is the solution anywhere in Canada, our approach to public health care only keeps getting a pass from our citizens because Canadians are like seals trained to say "At least it is better than the American system!" any time someone points out that our system is mediocre to shit. Many of the best healthcare systems in the world mix public and private effectively and we don't even consider that maybe we should include more selective privatization to improve our mediocre outcomes.

If we want to improve our healthcare I would start by cutting admin positions and boosting line workers.

We have 10x more admin workers than most and they are nepotism positions.

That being said, OP, this is happening in every Lib and NDP run province too, and worse

 

[The_Renaissance]

Live in Ontario. Can confirm that our system is broken. Hours long wait in hospitals. Shit quality. Wait months to see specialists. So fucking slow.

My relatives in the states ask "why do you have to wait 3 days to get x ray results to know if you have a broken leg. Isn't that urgent?"

I'm amazed Americans can go to a hospital and in the same day get an x ray, MRI and get the results same day. Holy fuck.

We do that in the UK, for free.

I broke my shoulder on holiday in Feb, waited til I got home.

Granted, was waiting a good 2hours before being seen in the first instance, and was in the hospital a total of 4hrs altogether - but X-Ray, scan, and session with consultant + physio referral all done within 4hrs for free. First physio session 7 days later.

 

[rikibobby]

If we want to improve our healthcare I would start by cutting admin positions and boosting line workers.

We have 10x more admin workers than most and they are nepotism positions.

That being said, OP, this is happening in every Lib and NDP run province too, and worse

This 100%. My wife manages a small ER in Ontario and they are crazy top-heavy. Most of the blame for the shit-show our hospital has experience lies with the CEO in my opinion and her constant creation of new positions and re-organizations of existing ones (wife doesn't see it like that). My wife has at least 1 nurse quit per month for various reasons (not overworked). My wife has covered a dozen nightshifts on the frontline in the last year on top of working Mon-Fri.

On a side note, we have just gotten covid and she cannot work for 10 days. She has recovered after the 5 days, but the medical field requires 10 days of no work (5 days of mandatory isolation and then 5 days of whatever you want except work). Literally the dumbest rule as all employees are required to be fully covid garbed all day at work. The hospital is not where she got covid. She got it from me. Bring back non-vaccinated nurses asap.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

You don't even have a private option? That's weird to me, obviously in the UK we have the NHS but we also have private hospitals for people who want to pay to skip the queue or don't want to have to recover on a ward with the plebs or whatever.

 

[jefferz]

Live in Ontario. Can confirm that our system is broken. Hours long wait in hospitals. Shit quality. Wait months to see specialists. So fucking slow.

My relatives in the states ask "why do you have to wait 3 days to get x ray results to know if you have a broken leg. Isn't that urgent?"

I'm amazed Americans can go to a hospital and in the same day get an x ray, MRI and get the results same day. Holy fuck.

That MRI will cost you an arm and leg even with insurance.

 

[ShadBo]

Live in Ontario. Can confirm that our system is broken. Hours long wait in hospitals. Shit quality. Wait months to see specialists. So fucking slow.

My relatives in the states ask "why do you have to wait 3 days to get x ray results to know if you have a broken leg. Isn't that urgent?"

I'm amazed Americans can go to a hospital and in the same day get an x ray, MRI and get the results same day. Holy fuck.

I am not convinced anyone had to wait 3 days to get xray results for a broken leg.

When I blew out my knee, I had an xray and CT done that day. Sure, I was at the hospital for ~6 hours, but I left with the thousands of dollars it would cost to get xrays and an MRI in the USA in my pocket.

My step-mother's sister has cancer of the endocrine system and has tumors on her liver. After a lengthy screening process, she qualified for a rare specialized treatment that was not available in our Province. She had to cover her travel expenses but after 4 treatments she owed Candian Healthcare nothing.

My uncle had colon cancer that required many treatments. He received immediate care which cost him nothing.

My Dad tore his rotator cuff. It took him a number of months to see the surgeon, partially due to the timing of his injury - right as the first wave of covid hit - but he was in no pain and was able to live a mostly normal life. They operated to reattach and repair the damage at 0 cost to him.

People bitch and moan about the Canadian Healthcare system because it takes them months to see a specialist due to relatively minor injuries. This is especially true for people living in remote areas. Meanwhile, everyone is seen, everyone is treated, the most important cases take priority, and no one goes bankrupt.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with our system, because there are many, but hearing stories about waiting 3 days to get results for a broken leg reaches the limits of my credulity.

I read the current President of the USA nearly had to mortgage his house in order to pay for his son's cancer treatment.

That wouldn't happen in Canada.

 

[SammyPops]

Canada is so fucked that when a govt does not explicitly say NO to private health care, the sky is falling.

And get this to all you chicken littles- 30% of our medical system is already private!

Something needs to change. Our current system is broken across the entire country.

and get this- more than 1/3 of ALL tax dollars go to our broken health care system and we have a lack of nurses, family docs, ER closing and so on.

Serious question- how much more cash will it take to materially improve the system?

Our dictator has doubled our national debt since 2015 and we are all worse off.

 

[oldshadow]

Not something I know much in Canada but l tune into LBC UK and I hear hours and hours of how bad the heath care system is there. How it should be one of the main topics in the PM run off.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Canada is so fucked that when a govt does not explicitly say NO to private health care, the sky is falling.

And get this to all you chicken littles- 30% of our medical system is already private!

Something needs to change. Our current system is broken across the entire country.

and get this- more than 1/3 of ALL tax dollars go to our broken health care system and we have a lack of nurses, family docs, ER closing and so on.

Serious question- how much more cash will it take to materially improve the system?

Our dictator has doubled our national debt since 2015 and we are all worse off.

I have nothing wrong with a private option, but when the solution is to rent space from hospitals for procedures, it’s a conflict of interest imo. Sure you can put in checks to ensure more than the allotted space isn’t required. But if it’s lucrative enough, have them build their own hospitals and but their own equipment and meet all of the requirements.