ONE championship's Muay Thai format with MMA gloves - what does that teach us?

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

TL;DR: gloves don't change MT fighters' style that much

For a very long time, there was a lot of speculation about the effect of the gloves on the overall fighting style, with statements such as "MMA gloves would change the whole game", etc.

Recently, in One we have seen absolute top-tier stadium fighters like Superlek, Panpayak, Sangmanee and other excellent ones like Rodtang and Kulabdam fight in MT rules but using MMA gloves.

Interestingly, it doesn't seem to me that these guys have changed their style significantly, now, have they? To be honest, I was expecting much more clinch work, elbows and power punches (MMA-style ones that go through one's guard through the side and inflict a ton of damage even if blocked). It seems however that the opposite effect is true: we don't see a lot of clinch work and punches but the focus seems to be even more kicking than the usual. Which seems logical - as these guys want to protect themselves. Sangmanee still ended up getting KTFO, and Kulabdam went down like 2 times IIRC in the final.

Thoughts?

 

[j123]

It changes a tad bit, but not as much. If anything it made clinching easier on the fighters for sliding in.

When I did MMA I had to adjust accordingly too. I was more active with it as opposed to ocassionally letting the mass of Glove give me some leeway

 

[Freddy Fisticuffs]

The main thing i wouldhave thought woyld change was how they used their guard... but im guessing it didnt change much?

 

[JohnPJones]

one thing to keep in mind is ONE's MMA glove MT is fairly new, and is probably still evolving to find what works best...so it might be a bit early to pass judgement based on fighters who still primarily fight with big gloves for most of their fights...keep an eye out for rising stars that seem to be fighting primarily within the ONE promotion and see if their styles differ noticably from what would be expected or what is seen by those that still use the big gloves.

just look at MMA a decade and a half ago....had you said that a fighter heavily using a style developed from point karate fighting would be a UFC champ you'd have been laughed at, but the sport evolved and the machidas happened. only time will tell

 

[biscuitsbrah]

That’s pretty crazy that nothing changes too much. I feel like the best MT fighters control distance very well keeping out of harms way when it comes to punches. Especially Muay Khao and Muay Femur fighters. I don’t really watch one fc but does rodtang really fight the same? He tends to take a lot of punches to the face in pure MT no?

Any good mma glove MT fights you guys can recommend?

 

[aerius]

Any good mma glove MT fights you guys can recommend?

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Damn it. Video not available

Edit: found it

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

That’s pretty crazy that nothing changes too much. I feel like the best MT fighters control distance very well keeping out of harms way when it comes to punches. Especially Muay Khao and Muay Femur fighters. I don’t really watch one fc but does rodtang really fight the same? He tends to take a lot of punches to the face in pure MT no?

Any good mma glove MT fights you guys can recommend?

Muay khao? Knee fighters? They usually take a ton of risk and get hit a lot. I think you meant Muay tais (that kick a lot).

 

[User89]

TL;DR: gloves don't change MT fighters' style that much

For a very long time, there was a lot of speculation about the effect of the gloves on the overall fighting style, with statements such as "MMA gloves would change the whole game", etc.

Recently, in One we have seen absolute top-tier stadium fighters like Superlek, Panpayak, Sangmanee and other excellent ones like Rodtang and Kulabdam fight in MT rules but using MMA gloves.

Interestingly, it doesn't seem to me that these guys have changed their style significantly, now, have they? To be honest, I was expecting much more clinch work, elbows and power punches (MMA-style ones that go through one's guard through the side and inflict a ton of damage even if blocked). It seems however that the opposite effect is true: we don't see a lot of clinch work and punches but the focus seems to be even more kicking than the usual. Which seems logical - as these guys want to protect themselves. Sangmanee still ended up getting KTFO, and Kulabdam went down like 2 times IIRC in the final.

Thoughts?

I don't watch Muay Thai but I thought for sure kicking would be a bigger factor since they slip through more

 

[Frode Falch]

I dont get the myth that high guard dont work with small gloves

 

[DoctorTaco]

Anyone who’s fought pro boxing or Muay Thai can tell you those 8oz gloves aren’t as big as you’d think. The difference between them and 4oz mma gloves isn’t that much in terms of defense

 

[Frode Falch]

 

[aerius]

Thoughts?

I think the rule differences between ONE and the Thai stadiums is a lot more significant than the gloves. Nominally, they're both full MT rules but in practice ONE is pretty much early 2000s K-1 with elbows. Fighters can still strike from the clinch but the clinching is a lot more limited than in the stadiums, the refs break it up after a few strikes or about 10-12 seconds at most. You don't have the extended clinch exchanges where they fight for positioning to land strikes and go through multiple grip & position changes.

Without extended clinching, it's very hard to clinch abuse opponents and run up the points like they do in the stadiums and that changes the dynamic of the fight. Kicking becomes a higher priority since they're very high scoring like knees, and with less clinching there's more opportunities to kick. This is why we have a lot of kicking battles in ONE. Less clinching also opens up opportunities for good punchers, in the stadiums it's easier to clinch & smother opponents for extended periods of time which gives them few opportunities to box, in ONE, there's faster breaks from the clinch and more time for getting work done with punches.

To my eyes the fighters do fight a bit differently and matchups get tilted in favour or against certain fighters depending on their style. Superlek for instance was able to beat Panpayak fairly cleanly in ONE by putting together his kicks & punches and using them to set each other up, something which he struggled to do in his stadium fights since Panpayak would clinch to take away the punches. Which was why Panpayak was winning the series by a mile in the stadiums. Nong-O also benefits from ONE's rule set since he's a good all-rounder and gets more ways to put his strikes together, but he's due to age out any minute now so enjoy him while he's good.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I think the rule differences between ONE and the Thai stadiums is a lot more significant than the gloves. Nominally, they're both full MT rules but in practice ONE is pretty much early 2000s K-1 with elbows. Fighters can still strike from the clinch but the clinching is a lot more limited than in the stadiums, the refs break it up after a few strikes or about 10-12 seconds at most. You don't have the extended clinch exchanges where they fight for positioning to land strikes and go through multiple grip & position changes.

Without extended clinching, it's very hard to clinch abuse opponents and run up the points like they do in the stadiums and that changes the dynamic of the fight. Kicking becomes a higher priority since they're very high scoring like knees, and with less clinching there's more opportunities to kick. This is why we have a lot of kicking battles in ONE. Less clinching also opens up opportunities for good punchers, in the stadiums it's easier to clinch & smother opponents for extended periods of time which gives them few opportunities to box, in ONE, there's faster breaks from the clinch and more time for getting work done with punches.

To my eyes the fighters do fight a bit differently and matchups get tilted in favour or against certain fighters depending on their style. Superlek for instance was able to beat Panpayak fairly cleanly in ONE by putting together his kicks & punches and using them to set each other up, something which he struggled to do in his stadium fights since Panpayak would clinch to take away the punches. Which was why Panpayak was winning the series by a mile in the stadiums. Nong-O also benefits from ONE's rule set since he's a good all-rounder and gets more ways to put his strikes together, but he's due to age out any minute now so enjoy him while he's good.

It's true that if you take away the occasional elbow, it does resemble more early K1 with MMA gloves than anything else.

Where my view differs from yours though is that despite the impotence of clinch work in ONE rules, we still don't see that many punches overall and it is still extremely kicking heavy. We don't see too many punching combos that's for sure. They much prefer to strike one punch at a time at distance.

I think some guy nailed it on the head in saying that we are talking about seasoned kickers in the first place. Maybe it would look totally different if we were talking about Saeksan or Muangthai...

 

[Deleted member 580830]

I dont get the myth that high guard dont work with small gloves

What kind of high guard are you talking about ? Parralel, long or dracula ?

Of course it work, the long guard is still used even in smaller gloves but it still leave the body open and not appropriate to check kick or to trow a combination of punch. Tthe problem with smaller gloves is that it leave more space for uppercuts especially when the defender is leaving and entering the long guard. We can add that the long/dracula are sometimes used by muay khao to enter the clinch, but in one fc there is no such thing as extensive clinching. The metagame is more long mid range.

TL;DR: gloves don't change MT fighters' style that much

For a very long time, there was a lot of speculation about the effect of the gloves on the overall fighting style, with statements such as "MMA gloves would change the whole game", etc.
Interestingly, it doesn't seem to me that these guys have changed their style significantly, now, have they?

Thoughts?

Hello.
In my opinion the mma gloves change the whole game:
Femurs like Nong-o will use mobility instead as a line of defense rather than just long-guarding. He still use the parralel guard to recover from a missed roudhouse due to a lean back to block counter. Also fighters increased work on counter punching and precision. These are good examples :

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I think the rule differences between ONE and the Thai stadiums is a lot more significant than the gloves. Nominally, they're both full MT rules but in practice ONE is pretty much early 2000s K-1 with elbows. Fighters can still strike from the clinch but the clinching is a lot more limited than in the stadiums, the refs break it up after a few strikes or about 10-12 seconds at most. You don't have the extended clinch exchanges where they fight for positioning to land strikes and go through multiple grip & position changes.

Without extended clinching, it's very hard to clinch abuse opponents and run up the points like they do in the stadiums and that changes the dynamic of the fight. Kicking becomes a higher priority since they're very high scoring like knees, and with less clinching there's more opportunities to kick. This is why we have a lot of kicking battles in ONE. Less clinching also opens up opportunities for good punchers, in the stadiums it's easier to clinch & smother opponents for extended periods of time which gives them few opportunities to box, in ONE, there's faster breaks from the clinch and more time for getting work done with punches.

To my eyes the fighters do fight a bit differently and matchups get tilted in favour or against certain fighters depending on their style. Superlek for instance was able to beat Panpayak fairly cleanly in ONE by putting together his kicks & punches and using them to set each other up, something which he struggled to do in his stadium fights since Panpayak would clinch to take away the punches. Which was why Panpayak was winning the series by a mile in the stadiums. Nong-O also benefits from ONE's rule set since he's a good all-rounder and gets more ways to put his strikes together, but he's due to age out any minute now so enjoy him while he's good.

I am going to open up this can of worms.

Do you consider caged muay thai to be muay thai?

I know some people who do, I know some people who don't

 

[aerius]

It's true that if you take away the occasional elbow, it does resemble more early K1 with MMA gloves than anything else.

Where my view differs from yours though is that despite the impotence of clinch work in ONE rules, we still don't see that many punches overall and it is still extremely kicking heavy. We don't see too many punching combos that's for sure. They much prefer to strike one punch at a time at distance.

I think some guy nailed it on the head in saying that we are talking about seasoned kickers in the first place. Maybe it would look totally different if we were talking about Saeksan or Muangthai...

Even Muangthai has settled into a more kick heavy game in ONE than in his Thai stadium fights. Muangthai had pretty weak kicks in the stadiums and relied heavily on his elbows & clinch work to win fights there, but his last couple fights in ONE were won by his left kicks. Seksan being the Just Bleed disciple he is would likely fight pretty similarly to Rodtang in ONE.

I am going to open up this can of worms.

Do you consider caged muay thai to be muay thai?

I know some people who do, I know some people who don't

It's debatable. To me there's Muay Thai in general which is any striking based sport that uses the general MT rule set, regardless if it's a ring, cage, 8oz, MMA, or rope wrap gloves. Then there's traditional Muay Thai which is what we have in the Thai stadiums.

 

[shincheckin]

the smaller gloves make the hands more damaging, faster, lighter, and easier to slip through holes/pockets in the guard. I think we will see more hands in MT with MMA gloves because they are now a more effective weapon.

We already see a more hand dominant style in mma because of this plus takedowns.

Like johnpjones said we'll have to wait to see how the sport evolves.

I predict it becoming more movement similar to KB. We're already seeing more movement being added to MT.

 

[Hotora86]

I am going to open up this can of worms.

Do you consider caged muay thai to be muay thai?

I know some people who do, I know some people who don't

It's the BEST kind of MT

 

[AndyMaBobs]

It's the BEST kind of MT

Someone out there's gonna be really mad at that